Summoning vs Forging

[RamsHead]

Petrification + Devourer of Souls can be beat anything.

[MaxWilson]

I wonder whether it might be a good idea to give an SC super-chaff, in the form of e.g. an Iron Dragon. Something with lots of hit points to draw magic and confuse the combat AI, good mobility so as not to tie down the SC, and good morale so as not to make the SC rout. Maybe not; Enslave Mind works just as well against an Iron Dragon as it does against an SC and now you have to fight your own chaff.

On the other hand, I would really hate to fight an equipped Wraith Lord with 9 Iron Dragons. Even if I got lucky once with Petrify, Disintegrate, etc., I'd probably lose all my mages and be unable to repeat it on the other 8 dragons for the next battle. Maybe there is something to be said for quantity.

-Max

[RamsHead]

I believe Iron Dragons are mindless, so they will be ignored for Enslave Mind.

[Sensori]

Yeah, Enslave Mind, Soul Slay and the works will work only on the commander-type. And then... There's a whole plethora of things that work on the Iron Dragons. All the things that work on Lifeless things (like Shatter), all things that work on Magical things (like Opposition, Unraveling). Storm kills their flying ability.

Sure, they rock people's socks off if they haven't had the time to prepare, but they aren't that hot when they are ready. :/

[Shovah32]

What IS good against a ready opponent?

[Archonsod]

TwoBits said:
I mean, to fit out a proper SC/Thug, it seems like it costs many extra gems, and a lot of extra mage time in forging.

You don't have to make them into a thug. Great returns can be had by (for example) summoning one of the stealthy types with some nasty side effect (causes disease), then giving them an item to increase or add to this effect (bane venom charm).
Send them off to skulk around your opponents research base, or just have them tail the pretender and similar to wreak havoc.

[PvK]

Shovah32 said:
What IS good against a ready opponent?

Whatever they're not ready for.

[Wish]

RamsHead said:
I believe Iron Dragons are mindless, so they will be ignored for Enslave Mind.

but not "control" which is less research and easier to cast. It really pisses me off when I lose an SC to "control"

[MaxWilson]

Sensori said:
Yeah, Enslave Mind, Soul Slay and the works will work only on the commander-type. And then... There's a whole plethora of things that work on the Iron Dragons. All the things that work on Lifeless things (like Shatter), all things that work on Magical things (like Opposition, Unraveling). Storm kills their flying ability.

Sure, they rock people's socks off if they haven't had the time to prepare, but they aren't that hot when they are ready. :/

Point taken. I tested this out with a Wraith Lord + 9 Iron Dragons vs. 10-15 Ktonian necromancers w/ 25 PD and 30-odd troops (since LA Agartha is my flavor of the month) casting Shatter, Banefire, and Petrify. The Iron Dragons killed all the troops, zero mages, and died to a man. That's good to know in case anyone ever rushes me with Iron Dragons.

My current nightmare is now a Tartarian who casts Rain of Stones on the first round of combat, accompanied by 9 Iron Dragons. I suppose the defender bonus of going first, together with Ironskin, would probably get me through, though.

-Max
Very fond of petrify at the moment

[Tuidjy]

I am SC addict, although after the first few bite the dust, I start supporting
them heavily. In general, I find that spells that are the bane of single SCs
are rather worthless when the SCs have an army in tow. This is how I see the
balance of power:

Mages leading strong armies defeat anything.
Offensive rituals and suicide squads cripple mages and armies.
Well equipped SCs are terrific harassers.
Teleporting squads convert or eliminate solo SCs easily.
Everything but a stealth SC will die 1 turn after the enemy gets serious about it.

At the end of my MP games usually I end up with huge armies composed of 2-3 SCs,
a few dozen mages, 200-300 archers, and some protection 20+ meat shields. Half
the mages at least are capable of generating chaffe. In big battles, I cast at
least a couple of mass protection spells. Still the casualties are usually high.

At the same time, I usually have at least 2-3 fully equipped SCs hopping in the
enemy's rear and hurting his economy.

For defense, I rely only on castles. In the only MP game I currently am, I have
as many castles as everyone else together, and I am only one of the four
remaining superpowers. By the time the enemy cracks a castle, there should be
a custom tailored defense force waiting.

As for equipment, I believe in fully equipped SCs. The wraith lords with Soul
Vortex are the only exception and that only against indies in friendly domain.
If the target is worth a SC, it's worth an equipped one.