Revelers=unrest, but not maenads

[Actuarian]

I think that like many things DOM3 the answer depends on strategy, map size and other game settings.

I have succesfully used a maenid heavy strategy. In my experience they are not "next to useless." In fact, I think that the designers put in the extremely annoying maenid death scream to discourage us from using them

Maenids definately have their uses in combat. They are free and cost no upkeep, and they are berserkers. They are great for tiring out and eventually routing enemy troops. Fire at enemy troops with longbow centaurs while the maenids are engaging them. Use a bless strategy (nature for regeneration and earth to help with defense) and hold and attack with the white centaurs and other supporting troops.

If I remember correctly, a Pan in a turmoil 3 province attracts 9 maenids per turn, so if you can get a decent number of Pans in a province (I know they are expensive) you can quickly generate hordes of maenids. Properly equipped, your Pans can simulteneously summon lots vine ogres (also free and upkeep free, and they don't rout). That's two armies for the price of nothing.

As far as the money problem but consider the following. First, Pans are expensive but they can generate free armies (see above). Also, by having turmoil 3, you make it much more likely that a random event will occur in a province. This means that you'll hit the max number of random events much earlier in the game. I think everyone here agrees that random events are a good thing when you have the luck 3 scale. Also consider that temples are cheap for Pangaea (which leaves more for troops). If you buy temples aggresively your dominion will spread quickly. This feeds right in to the bless strategy mentioned above and the berserking nature of the maenids (and Pangaea in general). Berserking troops are at a great advantage if the are fighting in their own dominion; they will take initial losses, but they eventually rout most armies, even when outgunned. Finally you can use other scales to mitigate some of the income loss. Take magic drain 2 and growth 1 or 2 with a captive pretender. The growth scale gives you a little extra income back directly and a little more back by increasing the population.

This strategy won't work as well on larger maps, but I think it should work very well on a small mutiplayer map. Of course, as I said above, there are many ways to skin a Pan.

[Xietor]

troops that have protection zero do not seem to benefit from e9 bless.

[thejeff]

Troops that don't wear armor don't benefit from e9. Just like they don't benefit from Legions of steel.

Troops that don't have both armor and helm benefit less, since only one is boosted.

[Xietor]

Anyway,

I think the reveler plus pan=maenads would be nice for Pangaea. It would give the order minded pangaea players a chance to get maenads in a pinch. And it seems to fit thematically if both the reveler and Pan are present in a province.

The units are not free, as you will have unrest.

[Shovah32]

Then just do it in an extremely low population province. Basically the same as free.

[Xietor]

True,

But you still tie up an expensive unit making chaff. Sort of like having an expensive ermor mage sit and reanimate skeletons. It does produce free units, but I personally would not make it a high priority.

Pangaea, by nature, gets these free units as a racial bonus.
Even with 3 order, the turmoil created by battle generates them, so why not a reveler?

[PvK]

Mass Protection will let you improve the durability of Maenads fairly early on.

[Actuarian]

Xietor said:
Anyway,

I think the reveler plus pan=maenads would be nice for Pangaea. It would give the order minded pangaea players a chance to get maenads in a pinch. And it seems to fit thematically if both the reveler and Pan are present in a province.

The units are not free, as you will have unrest.

If you're going to go with an order 3 scale the maenads won't occur.

Someone please correct me if the following is wrong.

I'm not sure how maenads give you unrest or how they cost anything (except they do eat).
The turmoil scale dosn't create unrest, just turmoil.
The turmoil scale spreads turmoil across povinces.
The maenads appear beacause of turmoil, not unrest.
The maenads themselves don't create turmoil or unrest.

The revelers create unrest, not turmoil.
Unrest reduces a province's income.
The revelers cost money, both to create and through home province unrest.

[Actuarian]

Xietor said:
True,

But you still tie up an expensive unit making chaff. Sort of like having an expensive ermor mage sit and reanimate skeletons. It does produce free units, but I personally would not make it a high priority.

Pangaea, by nature, gets these free units as a racial bonus.
Even with 3 order, the turmoil created by battle generates them, so why not a reveler?

You don't tie up the Pan. Attracting the maenids is not an action. The Pan is free to perform any action, and the maenids will still appear, provided the Pan is in a province with turmoil (not unrest). I wish I were so lucky.......except for those darned claws.

[Actuarian]

By the way in my game I mentioned above I used nature 9 or 10, and earth 4. The earth didn't help with defense (my bad), just reinvigoration. The goal was for my troops to go berserk and then outlast the opponents as they wore out and panicked.