Machineguns

[IanWilliams]

In the context of the game when I have my AFVs pop up from behind a hill to engage the enemy I usually turn off of MG. I find I can take more main gun shots before drawing reactive this way.

I'm usually playing the numerically inferior but technologicaly superior side. If I'm trying to take down 2 Abrams tanks with a bunch of T-55s I'll cut loose with everything.

[SCAJolly]

Well, the "feature" won't change, so I see no reason to debate against it. I personally hate it, seeing as firing away with a weapon that has TRACERS one a single tank is silly as hell. You'd need a loader or commander out the cupola to fire the MG (if its not coax), and the gunner would be left down there to shoot the main gun. It's like shootin' infantry with M72 AP. Yeah, it can be done, but you're not accomplishing a heck lot with it. Except with the M72 you could rip a body in two and... oh, damn, gross. You get my point.
IMO, this feature is wrong and the suppression it adds is a horrible nuisance. WWI, I could understand. WWII, certainly to an extent. Post that, decreasing to a close to zero over time.
There is that neat way to turn off the MG, though it is very flawful. Well, not flawful, just not thorough enough; If an infantry section pops by, you would really like to fire at'em with the MG.
Imagine a very simple menu... you right-click on a tank, and there are the weapons listed as now. However, there is a tiny button on the left of the name, which upon clicking gives you a short list of the alternatives: Tanks, Infantry, Aircraft. You could mark boxes or leave unmarked, depending on which you wanted to attack with that weapon. Or rather, a much more comprehensive list, which would include helicopters, soft vehicles, etc. By default, all could be marked. But enough dreaming.

Another tiny thing that frustrates the bloody hell out of me, and which IS very unrealistic: Tiny vehicles go first!!
Any NATO vs Warzaw-campaign. You line up your tanks and wait, and what do you see coming...? The BTRs! Floods and floods of APCs, trucks, utility vehicles, leaving all your units exhausted from firing (though merry from hitting). And then... Dah dah DA, enter the heavy tanks! The spearheading bastards are now left without any fire in response of their maneuvering, except perhaps for a few scattered MG rounds. Jeeebus... The tanks are normally s'posed to go first!

[kevin]

SCA, actually Soviet Doctrine has Recon versions of BMP's go first, just as M3 Bradleys lead US armored formations. If the balloon every went up, the Brads and Bumps would be the light-weight matchup that precedes the title fight.

[DRG]

I'm sure **EVERYONE KNOWS** that if you pick a unit and press "W" you can select any of the four weapons you want without having to turn OFF any of the others and that way you do not have to fire "un-necessary" weapons

Don

[PlasmaKrab]

Another tiny thing that frustrates the bloody hell out of me, and which IS very unrealistic: Tiny vehicles go first!!

Are you talking generated battle or scenario here?

In the first case, remember that tiny vehicles are often faster, so if the IA deploys everyone on one line, which it will certainly do, the light APCs are bound to rush in faster than the tracks and tanks. Best remedy is to reduce the range of your heavy AT units (tanks, ATGMs, helos) until the big stuff comes up, and suppress/kill the small ones with artillery and support weapons. Particularly in a defense mission where all your units are entrenched you lose nothing at letting them come up to you first!

I'm sure **EVERYONE KNOWS** that if you pick a unit and press "W" you can select any of the four weapons you want without having to turn OFF any of the others and that way you do not have to fire "un-necessary" weapons

Sorry to insist on that Don, but apparently what both Jolly and Exel had on their minds was a feature that would restrict said weapons, just like the one existing, but according to the category of target. That sounds awful to do indeed, for both programmers and players (for every unit, carefully ticking what weapon to fire on what target...)

One easier way to do so would be to choose between "sure damage" and "all weapons", following whether you want to fire the least shots with the bigger PK or blaze away with everything to pin the guys down.

Now I guess everyone can do with the current feature!

[FJ_MD]

Let's suppose you have a tank with

1)main gun
2)ATGM
3)machine gun
4)machine gun


You see an enemy tank and, after select it as a target, you hit "w" key

at this point you can select weapon number 2 and fire, then, if the shot bounce off or miss, hit again "w" and select weapon number 1 that will have at least 1-3 available shot after the ATGM try...


This will prevent any machine gun fire at all.


If you see and infantry team you will have not a single problem cuz when you fire, tha main gun will load with he ammo and the machine gun will fire after the main gun.


I think this is a good way to manage this and also give lot of control over the battle!

[Sewter]

The use of MGs have been used for range finding. By applying this technique for the game, you can actually improve your hitting %. This is a fun way of playing the game. Here is a quote about the use of this technique, and the site.

"The Chieftain solved the problem of ranging the main gun by using a ranging machine gun with similar ballistic characteristics as the cannon. When the machine gun rounds hit the target, the gunner could be reasonably assured that his cannon round will hit."

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita.../chieftain.htm

[WBWilder]

REalistically, in battle I think a tank crew, if within range, would fire everything it had at an opposing tank. Hearing the clatter of MG fire on the hull or turret has to be unnerving, I would think.

I've never been in a tank fight and am not sure of the official doctrine. But like so many other instance, when guns are blazing and men are falling, sometimes one's reflex to survive kicks in and if he has any means to deter death, he will use it.

Wild Bill

[Sewter]

Holy Cow! Wild Bill... I used to download your scenarios back in the 90's for Steel Panthers 2! You have been around since the beginning. I think that the MG suppression is accurately portrayed in the game. At least for the actual/original Steel Panthers experience. Anyhow, it's nice to see you around. (Hope 400 wasn't too bad this evening)

[Exel]

Sewter said:The use of MGs have been used for range finding. By applying this technique for the game, you can actually improve your hitting %. This is a fun way of playing the game. Here is a quote about the use of this technique, and the site.

"The Chieftain solved the problem of ranging the main gun by using a ranging machine gun with similar ballistic characteristics as the cannon. When the machine gun rounds hit the target, the gunner could be reasonably assured that his cannon round will hit."

This is all true, but in that case the MG would be fired first to get the range right and the main gun would then be fired for effect.

WBWilder said:
REalistically, in battle I think a tank crew, if within range, would fire everything it had at an opposing tank. Hearing the clatter of MG fire on the hull or turret has to be unnerving, I would think.

You would only do that in a close quarters "panic" situation, as I said earlier. There is absolutely no point in gunning a main battle tank 2500 meters away with a 7.62mm peashooter that is not even going to hit (it wont, since the coax MG is meant for area fire).

Besides, unless you are at full charge, once you see the enemy you are supposed to fire the main gun, pull out of sight and reload, then pop up again (preferably in another spot), fire and rince and repeat until the target is no more. Of course this depends a lot on the terrain and the given tactical situation, but that's the basics. In any case you are not supposed to lie still visible to the enemy while reloading the gun and wait for retaliatory fire.

I'm sure it isn't an impossible task to code the weapons behaviour so that small arms (with 0 AP capability) are not fired at heavy armored vehicles.