SE5 Ordnance Supply?

[TNZ]

This is how my ordnance supply idea could work in the game. As suggested by Baron M, all weapons would have their own magazine. For example, depleted uranium cannons would have a magazine of 20 shells, capital ship missile launchers would have a magazine of five missiles and the point defense cannons would have a magazine of 200 shells. We design a ship with 6 depleted uranium cannons (120 shells), 3 capital ship missile launchers (15 missiles) and 12 point defense cannons (2400 shells). Now we can add or not add ordnance storage components that add more ordnance to the ship e.g. depleted uranium shells storage, missile storage and point defense shells storage. We add two depleted uranium shells storage components (80 shells) and 3 missiles storage components (30 missiles). The ship now has 200 depleted uranium shells, 45 missiles and 2400 point defense shells. All weapons of the same type can share ordnance; fleets also can share ordnance, just like ship�s supplies. The re-supplying of ordnance would work like this. A ship would visit a planet with an armory facility or ammunition dump and all its ordnance stores would be replenished. We could also re-supply from tender ships. Maybe this idea, on second thought, would be better for Star Fury II than for Space Empires V?

[spoon]

Phoenix-D said:
It would also increase the display requirements and micromanagement fourfold, and encourage further specialization of ships until they carried only one type of weapon.

I agree completely. I think a generic pool of ordinance works best from a gameplay perspective.

[Malfador Machinations]

Hi All,

You need to be aware of a change in SE5. Resupply Depots will no longer generate an infinite amount of supply. They now generate a fixed amount per turn. Same goes for ordinance. This way you cannot resupply an entire fleet with just one Resupply Depot.

This makes the idea of having different ammo types for each weapon a bit more tricky. And the Resupply Depot cannot just give all of your weapons a full ammo load. There had to be a specific amount taken from the Resupply Depot and given to the ship. If you actually have to generate each ammo type, that will be a micromanagement nightmare.

Now I know that a single ordinance pool is not realistic. But I'm trying to add realism without adding micromanagement. In SE3, you just had a timer that counted down. So you could see very quickly how long a ship had. In SE4, this became supplies which required more management per ship since you needed to figure out how much supply would get you through. In SE5, the current design is supplies and ordinance, just so that ordinance firing ships have a slight detraction.

Ordinance firing weapons (specifically seekers) are one of the most powerful weapons. If they now require ordinance, and a new facility type to generate it, that makes them slightly less useful than energy weapons which just use supplies. The introduction of ordinance is just to offset these weapons a bit, and add in the possibility of running out of ordinance during a battle without your ship completely shutting down.

I am open to suggestions on changes to this design. However, I do not want to add anything that will add to the already high micromanagement requirements.

Aaron

[Starhawk]

Hey got a question for you though?

Do you still have quantum reactors? Because if so then energy weapons would still have limitless supply right? Please say right .

And if by that point ordinance is still in use could you do us all a really big favor please, and add a kind of either torpedo or missile that is really usefull even when fired in small numbers, say two tubes on a ship would be enough to crinch the shields a bit?

Because as it stands I never use missiles past the point when I get shields PD and energy weapons, because the enemy tends to shoot down all my poor missiles.

[Fyron]

Same goes for ordinance. This way you cannot resupply an entire fleet with just one Resupply Depot.

You mean "ordnance", right? "Ordinance" has nothing to do with ammunition, but with official decrees...

[Kevin Arisa]

Whoah, never noticed that difference before. Checked it in the dictionary just now myself. Thanks for pointing that out Fyron. You may have just saved Aaron some tedious spelling corrections.

[narf poit chez BOOM]

Malfador Machinations said:
Hi All,

You need to be aware of a change in SE5. Resupply Depots will no longer generate an infinite amount of supply. They now generate a fixed amount per turn. Same goes for ordinance. This way you cannot resupply an entire fleet with just one Resupply Depot.

This makes the idea of having different ammo types for each weapon a bit more tricky. And the Resupply Depot cannot just give all of your weapons a full ammo load. There had to be a specific amount taken from the Resupply Depot and given to the ship. If you actually have to generate each ammo type, that will be a micromanagement nightmare.

Now I know that a single ordinance pool is not realistic. But I'm trying to add realism without adding micromanagement. In SE3, you just had a timer that counted down. So you could see very quickly how long a ship had. In SE4, this became supplies which required more management per ship since you needed to figure out how much supply would get you through. In SE5, the current design is supplies and ordinance, just so that ordinance firing ships have a slight detraction.

Ordinance firing weapons (specifically seekers) are one of the most powerful weapons. If they now require ordinance, and a new facility type to generate it, that makes them slightly less useful than energy weapons which just use supplies. The introduction of ordinance is just to offset these weapons a bit, and add in the possibility of running out of ordinance during a battle without your ship completely shutting down.

I am open to suggestions on changes to this design. However, I do not want to add anything that will add to the already high micromanagement requirements.

Aaron

Hmm, yeah, juggling even five types of ammunition could get hairy. And I can't think of an easy way to make it modable. Which doesn't mean you can't...

[Suicide Junkie]

I wonder if this could be modded into a Fuel/Energy system...

Where a reactor component would burn some of your ordnance each combat/game turn in order to recharge your supply storage, which in turn gets fed into shields/weapons/engines.

[Phoenix-D]

Good to know about the changes..assuming it isn't already like that I'd suggest making seperate abilities for refilling ammo and supplies..ditto on the Quantum Reactor or equivilent. That way even if the stock Resupply Depot fills them both a modder could restrict that. I presume the amount it fills per turn is moddable as well?

[Baron Munchausen]

These same objections could be raised about the concept of 'generic supplies' as well. How do the quartermasters know exactly how much fuel, food, ammunition, etc. to load all the time? That's why many games -- like the MOO series -- use a fixed radius of operation to simulate the supply train, and some others -- like SE III -- use a fixed number of turns.

The use of explicit supplies is a good thing. It lets you have ships with greater or lesser range at the same technology level and allows greater endurance for less activity rather than forcing you into one fixed range or one fixed time limit. I like having supplies explicitly included in the game, and I hope crew quarters and life support will honor their 'supplies used' settings in SE V!

I also think the concept of 'generic ordnance' is a good one. It splits off the biggest 'exception' to the supplies problem -- the difference between combat usage and regular usage -- and makes ship supply consumption a bit more logical at minimal cost in micromanagement. The additional bonus of being able to give heavier weapons a disadvantage of running out of ammunition is also good.

There are many 'issues' like this in simulation games where full realism is too difficult or burdensome to adhere to. I for one can live with the 'problem' of apparently interchangeable ammunition just like I can live with the 'problem' of interchangeable supplies because it enhances the game.