Last question (I hope) on magic learning strategies (Machaka or similar multi-path)?

[onomastikon]

Hey thanks for all of these tips.

Before I read Windreaper's post (and the later ones), I went ahead and tried a new game, with ok success up till now.

Obviously I do not grasp the importance of the scales yet, but perhaps later.

I went with a Ghost King, and made a good searcher (4 death, 4 earth, 4 nature, 4 fire, 2 water), 2 heat scales and 1 magic. I went with the 2 water perhaps for a stupid Idea, will see how it turns out: there is a Very Powerful Item, I think it is called the Water bracelet, which only costs 5 gems and req. 1 water skill, gives +1 water. With one of these on my pretender or two on a Black Sorc with a Skull of Fire (if he has random water), they can forge a Staff of the Elements (+1 all elements), which I can give to a witchdoctor to let him forge the Flame Helmet. Then my casters can stop researching and join a battle, if my nation survives that long.
I am going for high construction and alteration, middle conjuration and evokation.
Also, water works ok with some alteration and early evocation spells I think.

Well, I am sure it will be much different than I plan (so far havent found any water sites!), and I will try a new game perhaps with some of Windreaper's suggestions. But maybe I would try a Greath Mother instead of PoD. Also, I just sort of *like* the spiders. Maybe they are not so great, I just sort of like the big hunters. And they get nice bless effects with my 4 4s.

Well thanks for listening anyway.

[Jasper]

The best bless effect I've found for the Hunter Spiders is Earth 9. This gives them protection 26, and means the never tire.

[Humer]

One huge thing, which hasn't cropped up yet: Machaka can make use of Fever Fetishes off the box! Best path to fire gemmity goodness:
- Black Sorceror forges Earth boots (skip, if random was Earth)
- Black Sorceror forges Dwarven hammer
- Someone summons an undead commander, since they don't give a rats @$$ about diseases.
- Witch Doctor w/ D-Hammer hammers away Fever Fetishes a-plenty (req. Fire-1, Nature-1).
- Fever Fetish goes to an undead commander. Black Servants work best (stealth).
- Remember to harvest (F7->pool(fire gems))

Cost to start this is quite a bit (in gems) but I find it *very* worthwhile, especially after recruiting indy-alchemist and forging the Alchemists' Stone

Dwarven hammer should be used. Really.

- Humer

[Windreaper]

Humer: that sort of goes without saying but is a good point anyway. I admit that I turn quite a hefty amount of the fire gems to cash, too but most of the time I just go to town with Flames/Fires from the sky or build some phoenix rods instead (incinerate = best fire combat spell). Those work especially well against all kinds of big monsies, mass protected ulm troops etc. Also, tested a 4-air Virtue design today and would heartily recommend it for Machaka, too. You actually get the same scales as w/ PoD.

As for Hunter Spiders, I'm still not a big fan of them. Just too easy to take out with magic to be worth the investment. Actually, I find that the mages are Machaka's real strength. I mostly build Hoplites (damn these troops are cool) with some shortbows thrown in with 'fire at archers' to take out longbows/crossbows. Later in the game just mass protect your hoplites for prot 23, have plenty of black sorcerers casting magma eruption and use relief to make their fatigue go away.

Also, tested a 4-air Virtue design today and would heartily recommend it for Machaka, too. You actually get the same scales as w/ PoD.

SHHHHHHHH. That was my secret!

[customer717]

I tried machaka Last night and was doing okay with them, but their province defense was killing me. It did not seem to matter if I had a PD of 1 or a PD of 30, they got destroyed by anything. The low defense and zero protection is a killer. How do you guys keep enemies out of your territory with these guys?

[PvK]

Use the Holy-3 priests to keep the militia fighting with Surmon of Courage, and/or a magician with group protective or other group-enhancing spells, and/or a small other force whose strength will be multiplied by the enemy also having to deal with the cannon fodder. Cannon fodder is effective, but only as an element of "combined arms" - you generally need some other elements to make it worthwhile.

PvK

[Pillin]

Forgot about the thistle mace, its all making sence now

[ March 08, 2004, 02:34: Message edited by: Pillin ]

Well Alteration 6 gets you Invulnerability, Incinerate, Drain Life, Elemental Fortitude, and Mass Protection.

Mass Protection on Hoplites gives them an incredible Protection Value making your normal armies almost invulnerable.

There isn't a reason to not go for Mass Protection after you get Flaming Arrows IMO.

[LaFollet]

For PD I read somewhere else that someone(I can't remember who) suggested to use archers in equal numbers with the PD. It really works well, especially since the PD absorb so much damage (you really need a lvl 3 priest to make the absorb lots of dmg) while the archers(national or indy, either will do) take apart the enemy. I play machaka ALL the time, use massive armies of hopts and archers(bags of wine and giant cauldrons required) with small amounts of Black Hunters to take out rear units.
What I've been doing to help my hopts with the front row fighting (and my supply issues) is using Vine Ogres, right now with my Druid pretender I can summon 5 at a time, for only 1 nature gem.