More Neutrals - Page 2

DirkHowitzer · #11 January 20th, 2001, 06:20 PM

So you could mix and match various AI ships to simulate the neutral races buying old AI ships to put together a patchwork fleet...hmmm....the plot thickens;-)

NOW...the next question...is there anyway to force the game to set up a game with the exact # of neutrals you want? I know you can add regular AI player by just putting them on the player list but you can't add neutrals...

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"He's dead, Jim."-- Lt. Commander Leonard "Bones" McCoy |Chief Medical Officer / USS Enterprise (NCC-1701)

pathfinder · #12 January 20th, 2001, 09:22 PM

Yeah, when you make a race in "new race" , it will use a generic AI script. But innorder for the computer to use it you have to click on a box that switches it to computer run, this little box is in the "general details" menu where you name the race/empire, its leader, its title, etc..

Baron Munchausen · #13 January 21st, 2001, 01:58 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Atrocities:
I agree that the neutrals in this game are far and few in between with no real hope of ever becoming anything but cannon fodder for aggressive empires. *cough* me.

I would love to see at least 10 to 15 neutrals per game complete with the ability to kick my but if they don't want me within there system.

Also, as a side note, I feel that it would be an added bonus if we had verying degrees of neturals. IE, ones there were far more advanced, (ancient race) and ones that are primitive. (pre space flight) This would add much needed depth to the neutral aspect of the game.

Theoretically you could boost the power of neutrals by inventing special racial tech areas for them, and letting them start the game with these techs already available. It would be messy to duplicate big Groups of the components and facilities, but you could even give them the existing racial techs like Organic and Crystalline as "different" fields than the ones that AI empires use by copying the existing components and facilities and changing their tech requirements to the new field. Then the techs would not transfer if they were conquered. Unfortunately, there is no "automatic" random variation. Whatever you setup for a neutral is what they will be every time you meet them. It would be better if characteristics could randomly move around and make things more interesting.

Sinapus · #14 January 21st, 2001, 03:39 AM

I started messing with the stats for missiles and made some weapon mounts for them to use on ships, bases and weapon platforms. Mostly, it's range I'm changing. Actually, the damage is actually decreased for two of the ship seeker mounts. I made a "standard" mount that is 60% as big (30kt for CSM and Plasma) and decreased the damage a bit.

The weapon platform and base mods provide some increase in range and damage. Does range ever go above 20? (Yes, I'm being that nasty.)

Do the neutrals use the Default AI files? I changed some of the weapons there (defense base and weapon platform) to capital ship missiles. Hopefully, this will make them very difficult to kill unless you have heavy point defense.

Since I posted the idea for improving missiles (I'm also increasing the seeker speed just to see what happens) I'm hoping giving neutrals access to these weapons will help make them more difficult to kill.

I'll try to report back on what playtesting will do to this, game-balance wise... argh.

Just tried it using the maximum range. The seekers (CSM Vs) kept vanishing at about range 16 or so. Feh.

I'll try tinkering some more later, I guess.

------------------
--
"What do -you- want?" "I'd like to live -just- long enough
to be there when they cut off your head and stick it on a
pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors
come with too high a price. I would look up into your lifeless
eyes and wave like this..." *waggle* "...can you and your
associates arrange that for me, Mr. Morden?"

pathfinder · #15 January 21st, 2001, 03:51 AM

To correct my earlier post:

neutrals need the following .txt files: anger, fleets, general & settings.

and what Henke says abouts shipps is true too: if you don't put a shipset in, the games uses generaic sets..

OOppsie...wrong topic

[This message has been edited by pathfinder (edited 21 January 2001).]

[This message has been edited by pathfinder (edited 21 January 2001).]

Baron Munchausen · #16 January 21st, 2001, 06:07 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Sinapus:
I started messing with the stats for missiles and made some weapon mounts for them to use on ships, bases and weapon platforms. Mostly, it's range I'm changing. Actually, the damage is actually decreased for two of the ship seeker mounts. I made a "standard" mount that is 60% as big (30kt for CSM and Plasma) and decreased the damage a bit.

The weapon platform and base mods provide some increase in range and damage. Does range ever go above 20? (Yes, I'm being that nasty.)

Do the neutrals use the Default AI files? I changed some of the weapons there (defense base and weapon platform) to capital ship missiles. Hopefully, this will make them very difficult to kill unless you have heavy point defense.

Since I posted the idea for improving missiles (I'm also increasing the seeker speed just to see what happens) I'm hoping giving neutrals access to these weapons will help make them more difficult to kill.

I'll try to report back on what playtesting will do to this, game-balance wise... argh.

Just tried it using the maximum range. The seekers (CSM Vs) kept vanishing at about range 16 or so. Feh.

I'll try tinkering some more later, I guess.

I was thinking along the lines of special techs that would give them defenses against the strategic powers of Galactic level opponents. The "Change Bad Intelligence Chance" power is currently only used by a Religious tech facility. How about a facility for Neutral races only that gives them a 50 percent defensive advantage against intel attacks in their system? They only have ONE system after all. Call it the "small society" bonus. Being a small, insular race they are harder to infiltrate and sabotage. Some combat bonuses could be added with the "Change Combat" ability (also used only by a religious facility and the Temporal "Events Predictor"), on the rationale that they have a morale bonus from the fact that they are defending their HOME, the only system they have.

Giving them component techs is trickier. It's hard to justifiy little worlds having too many exotic technologies unless some unique things are added to the game just for them. They ought to be specially designed for defensive purposes, if so.

Jubala · #17 January 21st, 2001, 08:14 AM

Good idea Baron. I created a racial tech tree for neutrals in which they had a universal colonization component so they could settle all planets in their homesystem at once when I first got the game. But back then I didn't know how to make them research and use it so I gave it up. Now that I do maybe I will take it up again.

What I would want the neutrals to do in general to protect themselves is to mount serious warp point defenses with tons of sats, mines, fighters and bases. I wish the AI in general was better at this, but neutrals in particular. It should hurt to break into a neutrals system that has had some time to prepare fixed defenses. Mines, satellites and fighters doesn't cost any maintainance and bases have 50% reduced upkeep so that's what neutrals should concentrate on imo. I have never seen the AI build a base at a warp point so I don't know if it can.

DirkHowitzer · #18 January 21st, 2001, 03:51 PM

These are all good ideas, but you have to consider reality as well...I mean in the real world how long would a country like Switzerland/Cuba/Phillipines/Swaziland/etc...(small countries...Switzerland was actually neutral in WWII)...Last against the US or other large power if that country really decided that they wanted the smaller one. So don't give the neutrals to large a bonus.

------------------

"He's dead, Jim."-- Lt. Commander Leonard "Bones" McCoy |Chief Medical Officer / USS Enterprise (NCC-1701)

Baron Munchausen · #19 January 21st, 2001, 05:03 PM

quote:
Originally posted by DirkHowitzer:
These are all good ideas, but you have to consider reality as well...I mean in the real world how long would a country like Switzerland/Cuba/Phillipines/Swaziland/etc...(small countries...Switzerland was actually neutral in WWII)...Last against the US or other large power if that country really decided that they wanted the smaller one. So don't give the neutrals to large a bonus.

This is true, of course. The real restraint on a ruthless conquering sort of empire is the diplomatic consequences of being too brazen about it.

If the other AI empires would take notice of your behavior and dispute with you then the neutrals would be more survivable. And it doesn't have to be only "nice" AIs that stick up for neutrals. Another ruthless conqueror might just as likely say "Hey, that's MY turf" and threaten you for taking the neutral system because they want to take it themselves.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 21 January 2001).]

Barnacle Bill · #20 January 21st, 2001, 06:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
This is true, of course. The real restraint on a ruthless conquering sort of empire is the diplomatic consequences of being too brazen about it. If the other AI empires would take notice of your behavior and dispute with you then the neutrals would be more survivable. And it doesn't have to be only "nice" AIs that stick up for neutrals. Another ruthless conqueror might just as likely say "Hey, that's MY turf" and threaten you for taking the neutral system because they want to take it themselves.

This is exactly how it should work. The diplomatic model should create grave consequences for beating up on neutrals.