Ukraine 2021(?)

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

On the Ukrainian tanks numbers for that period those numbrs aren't out of line with some I've seen either up or down.

What is clear and reported by many "respectable" sources is that they have both replenished their loses and have more tanks then when the war started on 24 Feb. 2022.

Of the Russian captured tanks, I'm working on (More on this elsewhere.) for submission which are only 10 types (But have become a headache.) the total comes to 441 as of last Thur./Fri.

Unsubmitted to avoid duplication on tanks that are essentially equal to existing ones from both countries are left out, HOWEVER, it well known that the Ukraine are using them as well. That number is around 70 captured other types including approximately the same falling into the unidentified T-72/80 & 90 series tanks.

Total verified from the same last week is...
Tanks (1610, of which destroyed: 944, damaged: 73, abandoned: 60, captured: 533)

Total all categories is...
Russia - 8634, of which: destroyed: 5408, damaged: 219, abandoned: 298, captured: 2709.

I'm supplying the reference I'm NOT going to debate the merits of this information as I've even seen JANE's mention it and not in a bad way.

Use it as you wish and before you judge it, I would suggest you read the opening paragraph of this ref.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/0...equipment.html

Mark that was some good "Dope" you put out there.

As I was about to leave the ORNX site I came across this by accident "so the road appears to go both ways" which makes me even more comfortable.
https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/0...ukrainian.html

Regards,
Pat

[MarkSheppard]

Also, many T-90S export tanks have been found destroyed in Ukraine. Seems the Russians are diverting tanks meant for export from their final customers for internal use. Bet that's winning them friends.

So if you want to simulate this; just set Indian T-90S to captured lol when picking Russian tanks!

[DRG]

That (Perhaps.......) should be done with any Russian vehicle rather than trying to add everything that's been captured to the Ukrainian OOB ( As I have been doing since the last release.) It would save the increasingly few weapons slots left in the Ukrainian OOB. It's a nearly safe bet that any vehicle currently in the Russian OOB for 2022 has had at least one of them captured and re-used by Ukraine

Many weapons are duplicated between the Russian and Ukrainian OOB but many are not and every new vehicle added from "western" stocks uses up to 4 weapon slots

HINDSIGHT is always 20/20 but when we expanded the units and Formations in the OOB's we didn't increase weapons because 2 decades ago the idea that 249 weapon slots could be used up seemed ridiculous ( as would have the idea that we'd still doing this in 2023 and that Russia and Ukraine would fight a major war....)

[MarkSheppard]

Originally Posted by DRG

That (Perhaps.......) should be done with any Russian vehicle rather than trying to add everything that's been captured to the Ukrainian OOB ( As I have been doing since the last release.)

Proposal: Perhaps limit adding units to the Ukrainian OOB unless:

1.) Enough actually show up in large numbers -- i.e. 12 Challenger IIs, no; 200 M2A2 Bradleys, yes.

and/or

2.) Do the Ukrainians modify it enough during refurbishment to make it unique enough to include?

I think that perhaps it might be worth including a HTML file listing all the weapons that have ended up in Ukraine and the suggested OOBs to buy them from.

HINDSIGHT is always 20/20 but when we expanded the units and Formations in the OOB's we didn't increase weapons because 2 decades ago the idea that 249 weapon slots could be used up seemed ridiculous ( as would have the idea that we'd still doing this in 2023 and that Russia and Ukraine would fight a major war....)

My memory is dim, but I vaguely THINK you did try expanding it to 999 weapon slots years ago to see if it worked; but it broke a lot of other things.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by MarkSheppard

My memory is dim, but I vaguely THINK you did try expanding it to 999 weapon slots years ago to see if it worked; but it broke a lot of other things.

Yep. A lot of things. It should have been done when we first expanded the OOB's but at the time 249 slots were considered more than adequate even with the expanded unit count. Now an expansion moves too much saved data for scenarios, save games, and "breaks" just about everything that needs to read weapons data....which is a LOT of things

As for the other issue. Donated or purchased vehicles are definitely going in so all the T-72/ T-55 variants from neighbouring former Warsaw pact nations for sure are being added. it's the captured Russian tanks that are under review and no decision has been made. I have been adding them as they are reported but the allied/captured button allows this without cluttering up the Ukrainian OOB so pulling the former Russian captures out is under consideration because that is what the allied/captured button was intended for.

Another issue in regards to weapons is in the majority of cases the secondary weapons used by donated or purchased vehicles can mostly be found already in the Ukrainian OOB but adding each, named light calibre weapon for things like the AMX or Bradley rapidly uses slots and all the 7.62 and 12.7s do the same thing in the same way so I have set up "generic" 7.62 CMG etc for vehicles arriving in Ukraine from non-former WP nations. That simplifies adding them with no effect on gameplay and saves the remaining weapons slots for any potentially more major weapons systems that might one day arrive. A "generic" 7.62 AAMG or CMG does the same thing in the game as a "named" one but even with that 80% of the weapons slots have already been used in the Ukrainian OOB and I would like to keep those for something other than MG's

[MarkSheppard]

I'm just spitballing, but I'm wondering whether it might be worth creating a OOB just for this war?

I.e., activate the unused OOB94 "For R&D only" and make it so that when you hold the SHIFT key, OOB94 replaces GREEN on the various encyclopedia/battle editing screens.

No AI, no picklists, etc; because you've got the main Ukrainian and Russian OOBs for that; it's only purpose is to hold all the one-offs and stuff coming from this war to be bought as captured equipment.

[DRG]

With what's already available to players using the captured button a " War in Ukraine" OOB is not needed

[Mobhack]

The main problem with the use of "set captured" is that the stuff from a forign OOB cannot be used for campaign cores. So only of use for scenarios or stand-alone battles.

However, I intend to see if there is a way to "set as core" for "foreign" stuff - fingers crossed!

[DRG]

This could be helpful but OTOH "captures" like this are rarely an "en masse" event that would allow full formations.... ones and twos are much more probable so having them outside the core is not at all unrealistic

[DRG]

.......and in related news.......( FWIW)


https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidax...h=65c7b6585562

By and large, the ex-Russian vehicles are in bad shape. Not just from battle-damage, but also from years of sloppy maintenance by unhappy Russian conscripts and corrupt contractors. It can take weeks or months for Ukrainian technicians to restore a captured Russian vehicle.

So there may be reports of them being used on the front quickly, but the reality for most of these captures *may* be somewhat different