Vicious Circle2 Upload pretenders

[GrudgeBringer]

Ahhhhh, sorry for stepping in, I thought you where gone for 3 days...Must have been Trumanator.

[aaminoff]

A couple notes about formal treaties posted in the forum. According to game rules, they are binding, so we need to all be on the same page about what they mean.

The treaties that I have with Abysia, Marverni, and Fomoria, all specify

forces of parties will not enter provinces owned by each other


Note that there is no exception made for stealthy units, so according to these treaties stealthers are blocked.

Also, the agreement between Mictlan and Rlyeh has no termination clause, this means it is permanent and can not be gotten rid of by any means.

Which just goes to show that sometimes what is not there matters as much as what is there.

- Alex, Helheim

[Trumanator]

Don't mistake these for legal contracts. Also, don't presume to tell other nations what they can/can't do in their treaties unrelated to you. If Mictlan and R'lyeh decide to end their treaty, they are completely within their rights to do so. Noone should have the right to complain about a nation's conduct except those directly involved. Any loopholes, exceptions, etc. should be dealt with between the parties, preferably in private.

[Mule Warrior]

R'Lyeh has not signed any formal treaty with Mictlan or any other nation.

[GrudgeBringer]

My take (and my take won't matter for long...

Treaties whether in private or public consist of what IS said rather than what isn't said.

There are SOME norms though, Nothing can be sent into your Provinces that can cause harm to the province nor Dominion as this is counted as an act of war.

Since most of the treaties I have seen are very specific and complicated, I have a couple of words for you...SIMPLIFY THEM.

Say Trumanator and I had a treaty negotiation and he played a stealth Nation.

It might go something like this: I (Arco) propose a 3 turn nap to begin on turn 11.

No stealth armies may pass thru my territories unless permission is granted and nothing other than regular scouts can enter each others territory.

He might reply with " I would like province #23,45,and 55 and you take #29,45,52 as our territorial line.

DONE.

We know: How Long, Boundaries, and Special considerations.

If we put it public we run the risk of other Nations knowing where we are..BUT we will have to hold to it.

If we don't put it public, we run the risk of it being broken when convienient by one of the parties and NO whining is allowed.

KNOW WHO YOU ARE DEALING WITH, and that only comes from expieriance.

Don't get caught up with what is not said...if in doubt ASK.

Trumanator is correct, ALL these negotiations should be done in privite as we don't need to know any more than you want us to.

We all form reputations, there are 4 or 5 in here that I would trust if they just said "you want a Nap 3" and I would know they would never break it and would not abuse it.

THATS a good feeling in these games.

My opinion of course

[Fakeymcfake]

Anyhow, having an unbreakable agreement in a game where at some point you likely will have to go to war is silly. Dominions isn't a game for polytheists, this is Highlander rules.

[aaminoff]

Treaty of Nigh-Eternal Friendship and Cooperation
between Niefelheim and Helheim

- forces of parties will not enter provinces owned by each other, or independent provinces in the defined sphere of influence of the counterparty.
- parties will not deliberately attempt to push dominion into one anothers territory
- parties will not cast deleterious ritual spells upon one another

Spheres of influence: Niefelheim's sphere of influence includes provinces 207, 180, and 168 and areas east. Helheim's sphere of influence is the provinces west and north of those. Provinces south of this border are not defined to lie in either sphere of influence.

Termination:
After two (2) pretenders have been eliminated, either party may announce the treaty's termination. Three (3) turns from this announcement, the treaty shall be null and void.

Signed by Helheim

[Fakeymcfake]

Confirmed by Nief.

[Frozen Lama]

one thing i'd like to say- in general, most games with binding diplo that i've seen, the policy towards stealth armies is a little looser. if the other person doesn't know that you are stealthing into his lands, its ok. if you have a NAP-3, and stealth a ton of raiders into their lands, and then leagally end the agreement, wait 3 turns, then attack all of his provs, this is perfectly legal in most games with "binding diplo" of course if you get caught, its another matter.

[Squirrelloid]

Way too many public treaties - now where's the fun in that.

Hmm... i should PM some people...