War.... (Historical: 9/11 discussion thread)

[disabled]

I will not disagree.

War is sad, but sadly unavoidable at times.

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HADRIAN T. AVENTINE
[email protected]
Administrator | SpaceEmpires.org

[Kimball]

Here is an interesting tid-bit...the United States National Anthem was played during the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace today...a first.

[Puke]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kimball:
Here is an interesting tid-bit...the United States National Anthem was played during the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace today...a first.

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isnt it the same tune as "god save the queen?"

[Baron Munchausen]

quote:

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Originally posted by Kimball:
Here is an interesting tid-bit...the United States National Anthem was played during the changing of the guard at Buckingham Palace today...a first.

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Do you really mean "The Star Spangled Banner"? Or do you mean "God Save the Queen" (King) as Puke suggests? This is used in the US with different lyrics (My Country 'Tis of Thee...) but it is not our national anthem. If they really played The Star Spangled Banner that would be quite an eye-opener. I guess it would be intended as a gesture of solidarity.

You know a great many foreign nationals were in the WORLD Trade Center, too. The current estimates on the BBC say British nationals killed will be 'in the middle hundreds', meaning around 500 I guess. That's close to 10 percent of the deaths and that's just one nationality. Japan estimates 100 missing, Australia close to 90, India can't make any good guesses but says Indian software companies were housed in the WTC, so it'll be more than a handful. It sounds like this will ultimately be a world tragedy rather than just an American one. Maybe it will result in really concerted international action and cooperation against terrorism. That would be much better than vigilantism by the US alone.

[This message has been edited by Baron Munchausen (edited 14 September 2001).]

[Puke]

quote:

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Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Maybe it will result in really concerted international action and cooperation against terrorism. That would be much better than vigilantism by the US alone.

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yeah, because group vigilantism is much better than the individual variety

not that im against it mind you, i just found the implication.. odd.

[Baron Munchausen]

QUOTE]
yeah, because group vigilantism is much better than the individual variety

not that im against it mind you, i just found the implication.. odd.

[/quote]

Actually, when you act with your entire community it's not vigilantism. There is no "world government" to take care of these things, you know. So an international coalition is the closest thing to a "justice system" you're going to get. Hopefully they will work with/through the UN, in fact.

[Puke]

i keep hearing peole reference how many forign nationals were killed because its was the world trade center and not the american trade center or some nonsense like that.

if you go to any major US city, especially costal cities, you cant walk even a few blocks without tripping over ALL KINDS of forign nationals. and if you blow up ten square blocks in the financial district of any major metropolitian area, you are lible to get a few hundred of them from most major nationalities, at the least!

i guess my point is that this is a pretty open country, a close knit global economy, or something like that. draw your own conclusions. Id go on to belabor that whats good for us is good for the rest of the world, but if you dont want to go that far you can at least see that by virtue of the sheer number of forigners working in our cities, we have to have at least a few common interests with the rest of the world.

and its not like the WTC is an extension of the UN or anything, they just named the thing that because they thought it would make a neat sounding name for a landmark building. that and draw in companies from all over. it was a rather smart move, even if it did end up getting them targeted by two major terrorist attacks in the Last ten years.

[This message has been edited by Puke (edited 14 September 2001).]

[Puke]

quote:

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Originally posted by Baron Munchausen:
Actually, when you act with your entire community it's not vigilantism. There is no "world government" to take care of these things, you know.

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well, the UN likes to try, and it looks like NATO is willing to help, but i get your point. i meant to suggenst that one guy is a vigilantie, a group or community used to be called a lynch mob. when they had a sherrif at the head, instead of just a drunk farmer, they got to be called a 'possie.' Maybe they will get to be called a task force or something, when its governments getting together, but i think the concept is basically the same.

again, not that im against it. I think a war on terrorism would be great, as long as it does not go the way of ronnie ray-gun's war on terrorism. i just find the parallel interesting.

[Andr�s]

Although I didn�t make any post here I�ve been reading this thread with interest.

Certainly this is a sad time for Americans, especially for those who could have lost anyone. I hope no one from this forum.
And I agree that something like this should have never happened and those responsible must be punished.

I admire your passionate patriotic reaction. That�s something I something I don�t think would happen in my country. I think it�s because our former military dictatorship government used patriotism to manipulate and control people and made so many atrocities in the name of the country, that now patriotism is seen as agreeing with all that.

That said I must say I agree with most non-americans here.
If something good can come from this is that we can discuss this
Americans are not as good as they believe they are, but that doesn�t make them necessary evil.
I hope you could understand that from some people�s point of view fighting for freedom could be fighting against american oppression.
History is written by the winners. They always forget their own defects and demonize the losers. The truth is that wars are fought by human beings, in every war both sides make terrible things.


I do not fear more terrorism attacks in the near future.
The plane crash strategy will certainly not work again without the surprise factor.

I empathize with your desire of revenge, but that doesn�t solve anything. Only thing you will do is create more anti-american feelings.
I hope that mentions of war were figurative, to appease angry people, meaning strong precautions against future terrorism and do not lead to an unnecessary massacre in any arab country.

A few thoughts and opinions,

Andr�s

[Quikngruvn]

It was "The Star-Spangled Banner".

As a jaded, cynical, elitist American, I must say I'm heartened at the support that the rest of the world has shown for the US, both here and from what I see on the news. I can only hope it can be sustained.

At Last count, besides NATO, the countries I know of that have pledged support to the US include Israel (naturally), Russia, Qatar, Oman, Kuwait, Uzbekistan, and Pakistan. Apparently the Taliban have ticked some people off.

I feel for the populace of Afghanistan. Because of the actions of a (relatively) few, they will more than likely suffer a great deal. Iraq also.

War, to me, seems inevitable. Just not one which we've ever seen. I've taken this point of view: the US is going after criminals, arguably war criminals or criminals against humanity. Nations that help (or at least tolerate) their cause are considered to be harboring fugitives. We just happen to be bringing nearly our whole arsenal with us....

To those who hold the US in contempt, all I can say is, OK. I can sympathize, but I won't pretend to understand your point of view. Not without walking a mile or several in your shoes, anyway. Just don't hurt or kill any of us, lest we get pissed off.

BTW, Last night, one of the local TV channels ran a telethon for the Red Cross. In ten hours they had raised almost $300,000 to assist the victims in New York and Washington.

Quikngruvn

[This message has been edited by Quikngruvn (edited 14 September 2001).]