Poll: morale and routing

[Esben Mose Hansen]

Boron said:
so far only you continue arguing against me though .

2 possible explanations :
-either all others got bored or just think i tell nonsense and gave up because they think it is impossible to convince me .

Bingo for bold!

I must admit, I read this thread in a sort of puzzled disbelief. The thread started off with discussing the routing rules, which has been up and about before without any real resolution. Then a suggestion to a fix had a "side comment" that this fix would slightly lower the value of SC, which turned the thread to a "how-to-limit-SC", while another "side comment" concerning the effects of the same fix on immortals unit started a "how-to-limit-powerful" summons. While these two items were discussed, the proponents for the powerful effects in the game chimed in and stated that they hated anyone and anything that would change this Meanwhile, Gandalf was humming his "Every�unit has a use, you just can't figure out how"-tune, Cainehill decided to go personal and somebody for the lack of nether fiends decided to start a thread-inside-the-thread about tthe merits and WWII tanks!

Now the thread has degenerated into people repeating what they already said, without listening. So let me write the rest of this thread for you

Boron: Why don't you see the brilliance in taxing summons?
Arryn: That would destroy the game, which is so good.
Cainehill: Why are you so stupid, Boron?
Arryn: WWII tanks are the best
Gandalf: If people would just use the units nobody use, they would easily counter [insert-strategy]!

while true goto Boron:

[Gandalf Parker]

Boron said:
gandalf one question because i am curious :
do you like chess ?

edit : one other question : do you like the random events in dominions or hate them ?

No I dont like chess. And I do like the random events in Dom. Im quite the advocate of solo play and increased "unfair" its such as randoms. My site at www.dom2minions.com is full of things designed to increase that in the game.

Ive been made very aware that Dom2 is created as a multiplayer game and hence is unlikely to ever get many of the things I would like to see in the game. But I am not eager to see it move farther in that direction either. Toward each single nation/unit/spell/map-feature/event being completely fair and equal. The balance in Dom2 is there for the game play but its deep and hard for some to grasp. Ive seen people give up and leave because Ulm was so out of balance with Ermor. They never realized that its more like Ulm beats Marignon which beats Ermor which beats Ulm. Thats overly simplified but its a workable example. Ulm doesnt have to beat Ermor if Marignon can. Or, Ulm doesnt have to beat Ermor as easily as Marignon does.

[Gandalf Parker]

Esben Mose Hansen said:
Now the thread has degenerated into people repeating what they already said, without listening. So let me write the rest of this thread for you

Boron: Why don't you see the brilliance in taxing summons?
Arryn: That would destroy the game, which is so good.
Cainehill: Why are you so stupid, Boron?
Arryn: WWII tanks are the best
Gandalf: If people would just use the units nobody use, they would easily counter [insert-strategy]!

while true goto Boron:

LOL. Cute. Very cute.

[Kel]

Esben Mose Hansen said:
Boron: Why don't you see the brilliance in taxing summons?
Arryn: That would destroy the game, which is so good.
Cainehill: Why are you so stupid, Boron?
Arryn: WWII tanks are the best
Gandalf: If people would just use the units nobody use, they would easily counter [insert-strategy]!

Hehe.

- Kel

[The_Tauren13]

lemme throw something new into the mix...

what if a scaled upkeep was used for troops... for example:
a unit costs x^(1.8)/1000 upkeep where x is the unit cost

so a cheap militia will have .005 upkeep... a knight perhaps 1.3 upkeep... and a good mage about 15 upkeep

then of course high resource troops would be way better.. but at least then sloth 3 wouldnt be mandatory

in fact.. why not factor in resource cost?

[Gandalf Parker]

The_Tauren13 said:
lemme throw something new into the mix...

what if a scaled upkeep was used for troops... for example:
a unit costs x^(1.8)/1000 upkeep where x is the unit cost

so a cheap militia will have .005 upkeep... a knight perhaps 1.3 upkeep... and a good mage about 15 upkeep

then of course high resource troops would be way better.. but at least then sloth 3 wouldnt be mandatory

in fact.. why not factor in resource cost?

There is sense to what you say BUT....
it would still be a balance affecting situation. This would impact nations such as Ulm much more than Pangaea and even Pangaea would have more impact from it than Ermor.

In mentioning Pangaea, I rarely purchase any of the high resource units at all. They serve me no purpose in the way I play. Im sure that is quite oppossite from the way some of the people in this thread would play Pangaea.

[Cainehill]

The_Tauren13 said:
what if a scaled upkeep was used for troops... for example:
a unit costs x^(1.8)/1000 upkeep where x is the unit cost

so a cheap militia will have .005 upkeep... a knight perhaps 1.3 upkeep... and a good mage about 15 upkeep

then of course high resource troops would be way better.. but at least then sloth 3 wouldnt be mandatory

in fact.. why not factor in resource cost?

Sloth 3 is mandatory? That's news to me. Sloth 3 is _doable_ and possibly even desirable with certain nations, (C'tis comes to mind), but it's hardly mandatory. Quite a few nations would cripple themselves if they took Sloth 3.

And high resource troops generally are already better than low resource troops, because their armor (the usual basis for high resource cost) keeps them alive a lot longer than, say, LI, while their heavier weapons do more damage to the foe.

But now you want to make upkeep more expensive for high resource units??? (That's how I read that Last line of yours.)

[deccan]

Arryn said:

Because a very vocal minority of players, whose names we're quite familiar with, want to turn Dominions into just another in that vast sea of mediocre games.

*Shrug* It's just a matter of personal taste and preference. I might as well complain why so many people buy David Eddings crap when they could be reading George R.R. Martin's "A Song of Ice and Fire".

Arryn said:
Furthermore, Johan has already categorically stated IW's official view on the subject, yet this same vocal (dense/oblivious) minority continue to beat their drum hoping to either deafen or tire the rest of us into submission to their whims. Newsflash: won't happen.

Yes, it won't happen. Not for this game. But I wouldn't want it to either. I happen to like Dom2 the way it is now, but occasionally, I'd like to play another fantasy strategy game that puts more emphasis on regular soldiers and less emphasis on all-out magic as well. I want that other game not as a replacement to Dom2 but as an addition to it.

[Boron]

deccan said:
Yes, it won't happen. Not for this game. But I wouldn't want it to either. I happen to like Dom2 the way it is now, but occasionally, I'd like to play another fantasy strategy game that puts more emphasis on regular soldiers and less emphasis on all-out magic as well. I want that other game not as a replacement to Dom2 but as an addition to it.

hint : this other game is really age of wonders 2 shadow magic
give it a try
it is about the opposite of dominions though it has fantasy theme in common .

i have yet not decided which one i like more . i like both about the same .

oh and on x-mas hopefully battle for middle-earth will be another great fantasy game mainly for the eye . but who knows perhaps the gameplay behind it isn't that bad too

[Boron]

Cainehill said:

Sloth 3 is mandatory? That's news to me. Sloth 3 is _doable_ and possibly even desirable with certain nations, (C'tis comes to mind), but it's hardly mandatory. Quite a few nations would cripple themselves if they took Sloth 3.

And high resource troops generally are already better than low resource troops, because their armor (the usual basis for high resource cost) keeps them alive a lot longer than, say, LI, while their heavier weapons do more damage to the foe.

But now you want to make upkeep more expensive for high resource units??? (That's how I read that Last line of yours.)

just 2 anti-examples :

high protection is for all 8-12 hp units not enough to survive 1 single lightning bolt .

a vanheim van / skinshifter is a really good troop but very resource cheap .
since the skinshifter has a bit regeneration and better hp then an ulmish knight he has way better surviving chances against battlemagic then the ulmish knight .



perhaps my suggestions could be added though as modding command ?
that i can e.g. make militia cost only 1/200 upkeep while a knight costs 1/50 upkeep and a mage costs his normal 1/15 upkeep .

or a scaled upkeep as tauren suggested as a modding command . this way we could start such a modding game which would find enough players while nobody who doesn't like this wouldn't need to care .