Proportions Mod Versions 2.5.2 and 2.5.3 available

[dogscoff]

I can't say for sure but I'm pretty sure there will be no stacking at all under any circumstances. The highest available value is used.

This means the optimal design would be one "scaled armour" (can't remember the proper name) and a bunch of armoured structures. The armoured structures will take damage first (usually, since they have the higher damage resistance) and benefit from the emmissive value of the scaled armour. That will make for a damn tough ship. The only reason to have >1 scaled armour is as a backup, in case the first gets wasted by a lucky hit.

[oleg]

Yes, there is no stacking from different types of components. The highest value is still in Emmisive armour. You may want to have one in addition to internal armours.

[PvK]

Yep. I think there are several valid types of armor design, depending on what you want, who you're fighting, how large your ship is, how much design space you're willing to devote, and how much you're willing to pay.

Structure types are mainly good for giving a design a lot of ability to absorb damage, and can be very cost-effective and/or very space-effective, but doesn't guarantee protection (e.g. the bridge could still get hit on the first shot). Adding several low-tech armored structure components to a design is a cheap and effective way to give it a good level of protection.

Standard Plating is scale mounted and not hit first - its main purpose is to give a high emissive effect, deflecting a certain amount per hit. Only the highest emissive effect on an undestroyed component is used - they never add. Standard plating's potential damage deflection is effectively multiplied by the total amount of (not "hit first") structure the ship has, so it is more effective when combined with armored structure.

Special plating is scale mounted but unlike standard plating it is hit first. It offers the highest levels of emissive effect, and the highest defense bonuses, but when hit with most weapons it will get destroyed before structure, functional components, and standard plating. However, you can combine it with other hit-first armor types to prolong its life and thus multiply its effects. E.g., one or more scale-mounted emissive armor components combined with several ablative armor components.

PvK

[ February 28, 2003, 19:32: Message edited by: PvK ]

[Aloofi]

PvK, I have one scaled Ultra Armor Plating component that reflects 13 damage, a regenerating shield generator 1 with 175 shield points that generated 7 points per combat turn, and 3 components of Ultra armored structure (not the scaled one) that reflects 6 damage each.
Now what its suppose to happen here and which components do what and which one get hit first and which one gets destroyed first.
Because I really don't understand how this works. Maybe because I'm not very intelligent, but I'm trying to improve.

[oleg]

There is always an element of dice roll what components will be destroyed first. But more or lesss documented trend is that bigger components have a higher chance to score a hit then smaller one. (reverse is true for armor and it is NOT components that have an "armor" name in description or "armor" picture but one that have "destroyed before other" as an ability. For example organic armour is armour but standard armor in Proportions is NOT. Actually it would be better if PvK remove "armour" word all together from the description of all such components and replace with "reinforced hull" or something for clarity sake)

[oleg]

Norak does not design Population transports.
Reason is simple:
"must have ability 1" should be "cargo storage", not "star - unstable"
Here is modified Norak_AI_designcreation.txt
1046567994.txt

Kind of silly to load whole file because of two words but it WILL help Norak AI ! Some other races may have same problem, did't check all.

[PvK]

Originally posted by Aloofi:
PvK, I have one scaled Ultra Armor Plating component that reflects 13 damage, a regenerating shield generator 1 with 175 shield points that generated 7 points per combat turn, and 3 components of Ultra armored structure (not the scaled one) that reflects 6 damage each.
Now what its suppose to happen here and which components do what and which one get hit first and which one gets destroyed first.
Because I really don't understand how this works. Maybe because I'm not very intelligent, but I'm trying to improve.

Well, it is complicated and very unpredictable.

For a normal hit, damage is first applied to shields. Any remaining damage is then reduced by the emissive effect of the undestroyed component which has the highest emissive effect. Any damage from that hit left after that is then applied to a random "hit first" component - chosen from any "hit first" component that can be completely destroyed in one shot, if any. Then any damage remaining from that one hit after all "hit first" components have destroyed, is applied randomly against a non-hit-first component, such as functional components, armored structure and non-specialized armored plating like you chose. The random procedure for determining which one of these is hit does not choose killable-in-one-hit first, and is weighted by the size of the component. (So if your ship above is a cruiser, you'll have 220 + 3 x 210 = 850 in armor, and perhaps 600 in functional components, so the chance your first hit will strike armored structure or plating instead of anything functional is 850/(600 + 850) = 59%.

For a more complete example, say your ship has so far been unharmed, when it gets hit by eight bLasts from a Large-mounted Meson BLaster V, which does 60 points of normal damage per hit, in one turn.

The first two will be completely stopped by shields, reducing your shields 120 points, to 55.

The third hit will remove the 55 shields, and 5 hits will get through but will be deflected completely by your highest emissive rating of 13.

The fourth hit will first be reduced by your highest emissive rating of 13, to 47. If you had any "hit first" armor, it would be hit by this, but you don't, so the damage of this will start piling up against any one of the components on your ship, determined randomly but weighted proportional to the structure the component takes up on the ship. Your Ultra Armored Structure probably has the lion's share of your structure (depending on how big your ship is), so it is most likely to be hit, but not destroyed.

The remaining four hits will very probably not have hit and destroyed your armored plating, so they will all be reduced by 13 each, so your total damage will probably be 47 x 5 = 235. Assuming your armored structure was hit first, your Ultra Amored Structure will take either 210 or 240 damage per component, so if it was Mark I armor, you'll have one damaged component, or if you have Mark II armor, no damaged components (but be only 5 points away from losing one component). If you take no more damage during the battle, you might end up with no damaged components.

If your armored plating does get hit (looks like it'd be Advanced Armor Plating II if it's deflecting 13/hit), then its structure rating is proportional to your ship size. If this is a Cruiser, it can withstand 220 damage before it breaks down. If that happens, then subsequent hits will only be reduced by your highest undestroyed emissive effect (6/hit).

Next turn, if your shield generator wasn't hit, you'll get 7 points of shields. If you aren't hit again, you'll have 14 points of shields on the next turn, and so on (175 max).

That should be as clear as vector calculus now...

PvK

[Aloofi]

Thanks for the responses.
Now I have another question (sorry for so many questions )
What would be the ideal armor composition?
Without worrying about price and weight, I would like to now if an scaled "Ultra Armor Plating I" that deflects 14 damage per hit with 4 Ablatative Armor V components that are hit-first is better than the same scaled armor with 4 of the non scaled Ultra Armor structure that deflects 6 per hit but are not hit-first.

[Aloofi]

Originally posted by oleg:
Norak does not design Population transports.
Reason is simple:
"must have ability 1" should be "cargo storage", not "star - unstable"
Here is modified Norak_AI_designcreation.txt
1046567994.txt

Kind of silly to load whole file because of two words but it WILL help Norak AI ! Some other races may have same problem, did't check all.

Can I change this by hand?

[oleg]

yes, sure. Go to Proportions/pictures/races/norak
open norak_ai_designcreation.txt in wordpad or some other text editor. Find the design of population transport (use "find" option in "edit" menue, use population transport as search words, 3rd hit will point you to the actual design I think). One line should be like
must have ability1 := star - unstable
replace star - unstable with "cargo storage". Save file and start playing. It will take affect in
existing games as well. No need to start a new game.

[ March 03, 2003, 14:44: Message edited by: oleg ]