The neo-standard thread- Standardising additional hull sizes.

[Ed Kolis]

Here are more ideas for ship sizes, borrowed from MOO2/3, Stars!, my imagination, and other sources (sorry if some have been suggested before):

REGULAR SHIPS
lancer
cutter
scout
heavy cruiser
dread cruiser (serious, they were going to use this in MOO3 but changed their mind!)
superdreadnought
titan
behemoth
colossus
leviathan
nubian

SPECIAL PURPOSE SHIPS (don't bother including them in any standard, but they might be cool in a mod)
privateer (built in cargo space)
rogue (see privateer)
galleon (see privateer)
mini colony ship
midget/mini/(regular)/maxi/ultra miner (how about giving these mining ships a special robominer mount that reduces its size by 50%?)
fuel transport (built in supply storage and solar supply generation)
super fuel transport
mini/super mine layer (for special racial traits like "Space Demolition" - special mount reducing minelayer component size)

BASESHIPS
doom star
death star
death egg (OK, maybe if you are doing a Dr. Robotnik shipset with eggmobiles as fighters )

STARBASES
orbital fort
space dock (built in SYD ability?)
star fortress
ultra station

[dogscoff]

PS: I believe you missed the worldship in your list.

* dogscoff smacksforehead.

Ed, we have a number of those things in the neostandard already: FOr example, death stars could (and do) use the worldship image. THe heavy cruiser is in, and so is the superdreadnought (heavy dreadnought).

But yeah, some good ideas. Basically it depends on what the modders will use.

[Andr�s]

We should try to make the standard work for the most popular mods and add more ships to it as the mods require.
But if the standard gets too long artists will never get to make all pic sizes, 70 sounds like too much.

We should try to unify image names a little as we did for the original 20 names.

Let's forget about their names, we don't want to force modders to use the name of the picture in all mods, but just as a standard name for the pictures.

Normal ships:
8 from the stock game pics + 5 from current NS = 13
Fyron seems to need more than these total 13, 4 more to get a total of 17 or can we unify some pic names?

Baseships:
The "Baseship" pic has achieved in Gold the status of optional stock file + only 1 more from NS = 2

Carriers:
3 stock + 2 NS = 5

Colony ships:
1 stock + 1 NS = 2

Transports:
3 stock + 1 NS = 4
Adding a 5th one wouldn't be too bad

Bases
3 stock + 1 NS = 4
BTW The Starbase is a stock pic, not neo-standard.

I don't know if the ones Fyron proposes should be here or in a special type.

Sats & Mines:
1 stock each
I like the idea of adding 2 more to have one pic for every stock size.
The sock names "Satellite" and "Mine" should be the medium one just like the "Carrier"

Fighters:
3 stock + 2 NS = 5
Does Fyron proposes 6 more because he needs 11 pics?
Or only needs 6 in total or 6 + the 3 stock?

Troops:
3 stock + 1 NS = 4

Weapon Platforms:
3 Stock
a 4th one is not such a bad idea

Drones:
1 stock

And these are "special" types, what mean they can't be counted as additional ships in any of the categories above.

Special ships (planet sized - Worldship):
1 NS

Special ships (starliners)
2 proportion proposals

Special ships (Stellar Manipulation)
1 NS

Special Ships (resources)
1 NS

Special Stations (resources)
1 NS

Special Troops (Infantry)
1 NS
I guess that as many mods add a second infantry we should add it, I propose to call the pic "TroopInfantryHeavy"

[dogscoff]

But if the standard gets too long artists will never get to make all pic sizes, 70 sounds like too much.

Very true, that's one reason I'm reluctant to add anything at all. For this reason I suggest adding a second "layer" to the neostandard- a secondary list which will appended to the first list and labelled as "optional". The truth is that all the neostandard images are optional, but splitting the list like this might make it all a little less daunting.

Images which become really popular with modders can be bumped up to the main list, and vice versa.

>We should try to unify image names a little as >we did for the original 20 names.

Of all the new sizes listed, the ones which really grab my attention for inclusion in the main list would be the starliners and cargostation(perhaps merging them somehow under S_J's "civilian" suggestion), the 4th weapon platform the second infantry pic and the satellites. I agree with the troopinfantryheavy name, although PvK is already using eliteinfantry.

The beauty of the satellites is that they can be included in any mod- even in the standard game- because the original image can be used as a default for all 3 and no-one will notice the difference. The same could be true of mines and drones.

I'm torn on the 5th transport size: There's always the barge image to act as a backup for massive transports, but on the other hand the barge is a distinct class. What do ppl think?

I'm not sure what Fyron had in mind with the fighters. His vehiclesize.txt has 6 fighter hulls, but calls for a lot of new images, despite 5 images being available in the neostandard. That was an early Version of the file though, I know he updated it but I don't have the updated Version on this machine. He may have wanted the bombers to look very different from the fighters.

I'm tempted to say that the extra warships are overkill, but some ppl probably said that about the destroyer heavy etc. They could certainly go onto a secondary list, if that ever came into being.

[ January 14, 2003, 14:35: Message edited by: dogscoff ]

[dogscoff]

For anyone stumbling into this thread and wondering what the hell we're on about... here are two links to bring you up to speed.
Encyclopedia Malfadorica neo-standard entry and the neostandard home page.

[Timstone]

Good idea, but I hope you can see what hulls are being used in which mod.
Damn, 70 pics! I have a lot of work to do.
I realy hate it when the same pic is being used for two or more shipsizes. So I started work on my Ipsha shipset. It's my first, but I wanted to make it right in one go (as far as the different pics concerned). That goal will surely be a longhaul. I thought I was well on my way with almost half the pics they use in the standard game and in the B5Mod. But now it seems I'll have to make more and more different shippics. A daunting task indeed.

[mlmbd]

OK! For my two cents. As an artist, not a modder (and some will say not much of an artist, either), I would prefer more images. The more the better. All artist like showing off their work. That said, the modder's should say what images (if any) they want added to the Neo set. It is after all up to them to assign images in their mods.

I like the; troopinfantryheavy name as well. But since PvK is already using Elite Infantry in his mod why not adopt that as the Troop Infantry Heavy. Or make the Elite Infantry and Troop Infantry Heavy additions to the Neo set. I like the ladder idea.

I also like SJ's idea of "Civilian type Images". Like the cargo station (civilianstation, or both), "civilianship" or "civiliantransport". Like Ferries (Ferryboats) or Starliners with special Quarter's for VIP travel! If you make them Starliners then
Pvk will get his images for his mod and the Neo set will get 2 or 3 additions.

Alright, I got more than two cents worth!

mlmbd

[mlmbd]

Timstone, 70 images! Daunting indeed! But, I did not hear form you that it was not something you absolutely relish the thought of! More of my work for people to see!

mlmbd

[dogscoff]

That said, the modder's should say what images (if any) they want added to the Neo set.

The idea of the neo-standard was to minimise the amount of additional images needed by using a common naming convention and so increase the likelihood that each image is used in multpile mods.

I'm like you, I like to do loads of extra images for a shipset, but not all shipset artists are the same:-(

[Timstone]

I don't like to make too much extra images. Not because I don't like it or because I can't. But it's the time that's involved. Now it takes me a full two days to make one completly new reasonably detailed model. I don't work every day on a new model, so I would take me aproxemately 200 days to make acomplete shipset. That's a long time to wait on an exelent shipset, isn't it?!