War.... (Historical: 9/11 discussion thread)

[Rich04]

America: The Good Neighbor.


Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to a remarkable editorial broadcast
from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text
of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:


"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly
the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and
Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and
forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its
remaining debts to the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the
Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of
Paris. I was there. I saw it.

When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring,
59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped. The Marshall Plan and the
Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those
countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans. I'd like to see just one of
those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own
airplane.

Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed
Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines
except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or
woman on the moon? You talk about Japanese echnocracy, and you get radios. You talk about German
technocracy, and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the
moon -not once, but several times -and safely home again. You talk about scandals, and the
Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at. Even their draft-dodgers
are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are
breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the
Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke,
nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name you 5000 times when the
Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when
someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during
the San Francisco earthquake. Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is
damned tired of hearing them get kicked around.

They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to
thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles. I hope Canada is not
one of those."

Stand proud, America!

[Puke]

danm man, who cares who has a right to what land? we stole this land from the natives, we took hawaii by military force, europe has changed borders more times than i can count, the holy land has been changing hands since before the crusades, who gives a ****?

Israel invaded, we put them there, and they are our puppet state, and our method of exerting influence in the region. its good for us, bad for the poor guys on the west bank, and its their tough ****. thats probably why they dont like us very much. Like the Native Americans believed, you cant own land or have any inherant rights to it. but we sure as heck controll it right now, and i dont see that changing very soon. I dont think anybody is going to find a crusty piece of papyrus in a jar under the dead sea, and realize that its an inditement from god to give back ownership of specific parts of the world to its rightfull owners.

I was having a conversation with god just the other day over a couple of beers, and he specifically told me that the hollywood hills were my rightfull land. the bad news was he didnt think i would be able to collect on it. The Jews and the Muslims are in a similar situation of not being able to collect, but they're worse off because god didnt personally draw it out for them with a magick marker on a realestate map like he did for me.

what a silly thing to argue about. maybe it belongs to the cromagnans that us homosapiens slaughtered on our way up the foodchain. maybe we should reanimate a friggin ice man by impregnating an ape with his DNA and grant it all to him.

[Puke]

quote:

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Originally posted by Rich04:
America: The Good Neighbor.
...

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wow, that warms my black little heart. it really does. but to the defense of some of those countries on whom fault is placed:

we owed the French. we poo poo them alot, but we would have had our asses handed to us in 1812 if they did not bail us out. i dont like to admit that very often, but its true. and as for them ****ting on us in the streets of paris, 1 - American tourists are some of the lamest, most arrogant, ignorant ****s on the planet. and 2 - the French are rude to everyone, even each other. they cant help it.

and i believe that AIRBUS is suppose to put boing and lockheed to shame as far as airliners go. sure, our military planes are lightyears ahead, but I think that airbus wins on the commercial market.

I also have to give props to our friends in England, who did lend a big hand cleaning up some of our nastier oil spills in the past, and whom continue to support our childlike pestering of Iraq.

other than that, I have to humbly agree with the entire thing, and offer a heartfelt thanks to our northern neighbors (whom, I might add, kicked no small amount of *** in WWI, and are superb, constructive participants in any global crisis.)

[geoschmo]

quote:

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Wasn't it the US that created this monster Bin Laden in the first place?
Back when he was fighting the Soviet empire it was allright for him to murder, he got CIA training and support to do so.

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I beleive you are confusing Asami Bin Laden with the Afgan rebels. Bin Laden had nothing to do that I have ever heard with the Afgan strugle against the former Soviet occupation. He is a Saudi Arabian and a religous zealot who caused lots of trouble in his home country and only went to Afganistan after similarly like minded religous zealots took over that country. That's the only place he could find that he could operate without fear of being returned to Saudi Arabia or America and facing justice. He is a coward, and a power monger.

I am so sick and tired of being told the U.S. can't do this or that because of "terrible" things we did in the past.

Logic like that would have kept us out of WWI and WWII.

"So what if Japan bombed Pearl Harbor? They only attacked military targets that were a threat to their interests. And Hawaii was "conqured" by the US anyway."

"So what if Germany was conquering all of Europe, twice? How is that different than what we did to the Indians?"

TOUGH! This IS different.

The rules have changed, and NOT simply because this attack took place on U.S. soil. It was naive for any of us to think that terrorism would never strike our country, especially since we live in such a free and open soceity.

But this changes the rules by the sheer scale and audacity of the attack. And by the level of training and support that would have been needed to pull this off.

I keep hearing on the news that "This is the worst terrorist attack in American history." And it makes me want to scream. This is the worst terroist attack in the history of the world.

This is not only an attack on the United States. Even though the targets were in the U.S. This was the WORLD Trade Center. Many foreign nationals undoubtedly lost their lives on Tuesday.

Every country in the world today must be saying "There but for the grace of God go I."

This is not a war between America against Afganistan.

This is a war between every civilized nation in the world, and any organization that would perpatrate such actions. And against any country that would aid and shelter any such organization.

If the Taliban government wants to avoid the bombs, they can turn over those responsible at once. I am sure things would go much better for them if they do. But they won't. Because even if they didn't "know" the extreme nature of this attack, they knew the Bin Laden was planning, and had taken actions against us in the past, and they didn't stop him or turn him over then. They are not innocent. They are not even appologetic.

They issued threats on Wedsnday that any attacks against them could cause anger and result in further suicide attaks. That sounds sorry to you? Check it out.

The rules have changed. We didn't change them. But we are going to find those responsible, and make them pay. And the rest of the world will owe us another debt of gratitude for doing it when it's all over. And you know what? I really don't care who likes it or doesn't like it.

Geoschmo

[tesco samoa]

Gordon Sinclair died in 1984.

The speach was penned in 1973 and was in context with Trudeau's ideoligy to push Canada's culture away from American's culture.

It was a strong speach then and still remains a strong speach.

If you wish to read about Mr. Sinclair or hear this speach in his own words go to
http://www.rcc.ryerson.ca/schools/rt.../sincla_g.html



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[tesco samoa]

http://www.rcc.ryerson.ca/schools/rt.../american.html

Is the link on the history of that speach

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[AJC]

Man some of these Posts have really irked me and now I am going to RANT A bit....

NO country deserves what happened tuesday -just because of foreign policies! Especially to have weapons of mass destruction used on them. The explosive power of that 767 jet was pretty close to 1 kiloton when loaded with fuel and ramming a buildng at around 400 knots. With the weight and speed of that plane it was approx 123 g's of force hitting that building.

Europeans certainly shouldnt be calling the kettle black- look at your own history - Europe has a bloody and dark history abroad for several centuries and it continues today. I am sick of the America is the big bad guy rhetoric. Bombing the US just because its government wont let the Israels be destroyed and we support our allies upon request makes the US evil ?! - what a load of crap. You dont see the USA occupying or invading countries at random. We defend our allies (kuwait) and strike back at those who blow up our people and embassies (african embassies).


I would agree with anyone who said that what the Israel's tactics against the palistinians is totally wrong and an obvious failure. Its easy to be the oppressor when you have the power, But Its doesnt justify killing women children and men who are completely innocent. The US gov policies are no worse than any other western govenment.

Maybe some people dont get it - this attack isnt an just an attack on the US, its an attack on humanity, and the world. Osma Bin ladin's cronies tried to ram the Eiffle tower 2 -3 years ago and the French foiled the plot and stopped the 747 from leaving the airport. SO This was not his first try.
Just remember - now that its been done- Someone else will try again - and your country maybe next.

As for YANK bashing by the British, I am british living in the US for 34 years. You must realise Church Hill practically beg the US to get into WWII because the british were hanging on by their finger nails and didnt have the Industrial might to fight alone. the US government let Pearl Harbor happen because the citizens of the US didnt want anything to do with a european war and they had to be made angry to get involved.
Everyone in this country knows that America didnt win the war on its own, Russia and other western powers were essential to victory.
I also want you to remember The USA rebuilt Europe after it was reduced to rubble and the US and never got repaid. That was american citizens tax dollars given freely and without strings.

For those who think I am a raging american citizen - your damn right we have alot to be angry for this Last few days and the longer the body count gets the more pissed off this country is going to get, its going to be scarey, its already getting that way.

4,700+ people are missing and the pile of rubble is still 6+ stories high, with 10 city blocks wiped out.
The NYC mayor has requested 11,000 more body bags on top of the 30,000 already used- get the picture? These are not terrorism casualties - they are numbers that are seen on major battle fields in major wars.

Its just been announced that they are considering calling up the reserves... maybe its going to sink in with the rest of the world now, A war was started on tuesday.

God help the bastards who are involved and the countries that harbor them. They will unfortunately pay in a big way.

What a sad time.


[This message has been edited by AJC (edited 14 September 2001).]

[This message has been edited by AJC (edited 14 September 2001).]

[Phoenix-D]

"and i believe that AIRBUS is suppose to put boing and lockheed to shame as far as airliners go. sure, our military planes are lightyears ahead, but I think that airbus wins on the commercial market.

I also have to give props to our friends in England, who did lend a big hand cleaning up some of our nastier oil spills in the past, and whom continue to support our childlike pestering of Iraq."

Keep in mind when that was written. actually, given the support that's come in, playing that over..and over.. like seems to happening is downright disrespectful.

Phoenix-D

[disabled]

This is what I got say.

I will live free or I will die fighting for it. No in between.

You people who think we are stupid, arrogant, and pathetic, you know what, I take that as a compliment. Because we could have sat back, and let all those petty dictators run you over.

How many of you would be alive now if Hitler succeeded? How many would know freedom if Stalin raged unchecked? How many americans would be free if the South had won? Where would Israel be without America? Would the Balkans be at peace today? What would China and the Pacific look like with the Japanese Empire today? Would Freedom be known if America didn't rebel so long ago?

I'll tell you... You owe more than you think to this country and the ideals we are founded upon.

I say.... REMEMBER THE TWIN TOWERS!

EDIT - I send thanks to all the people and governments that have looked past thier petty differences and united with the American Republic.

[ June 13, 2003, 07:07: Message edited by: General Talashar ]

[Puke]

i was hunting about for a se4 file that used to be available that i just CANT FIND anymore, and i came across something that might be of significane to this thread. I wont disrespect the author by pasting it here, but I will let you follow the link.
http://www.angelfire.com/tv2/NewAgeShipyards/index.html

I trust that everyone will have the respect not to nitpick and belabor the points raised there, and that any differences of oppinion can be kept to ones self. I for one, agree with the sentiment raised there.