New Kinda Noob game Starting

[Ragnars Wolves]

From the score charts on llamaserver you still have 17 provinces and 4 or 5 forts.

That is more than I have ever had in this game.

I wish you wouldn't ask to be put on AI and unbalance the game with that many provinces and just hand that many to 1 or 2 nations.

I know real life can get in the way, but you are making it sound like you think you can not beat Yomi so you quit. We all agreed to fight it out to the last man.

Think about it and post your thoughts please.

[mockingbird]

Fighting from a losing position is actually often more instructive than from a winning position.

To that I'll add that folding when the game is turning against you will only encourage other players to attack you in other games, creating a vicious downward spiral.

On the other hand, fighting it out to the bitter end means that people know a victory against you will not come easily, encouraging them in the future to look for easier pickings elsewhere.

It can be quite satisfying to outlast your attackers. I never had a chance in Greenshoots, but I definitely enjoyed seeing C'tis ousted before me after they attacked on turn 5.

[Finalgenesis]

I agree with mockingbird.

You only lost an army of sacreds composing of less then a third of your total forces from the charts, but still retain most of your cap mage thugs which are a lot more important and representative of a nation's power.

It's really not uncommon to lose armies (god knows I get my armies popped often enough and take chart dives like crazy). You've recovered much of the raided provinces and popped quite a few raiding parties and putting up stiff resistance, I can't honestly see the point you're at as being the point to drop a game due to hopelessness =/ I've gotten to 3 provinces before and made rebounds after that, and even if not hanging in there builds a rep for being tough (and not ...).

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by Ragnars Wolves

From the score charts on llamaserver you still have 17 provinces and 4 or 5 forts.

Yep, but they're all at 50+ unrest, I have nothing left to protect them from goblin/ulmish sneak raiders, and not enough income to buy stuff to protect them with either. Which doesn't matter because Yomi's already moving on to thugs and SCs to raid anyhow, which what I can buy or summon right now can't touch anyway. By the time I can touch them, I won't have the gems and/or yaksha to touch them *with*.

I know how this goes from here on, I really do - raiding and counter-raiding which drives the income of my lands to 0, while their income (both mundane and magical) remains tops because I don't have anything to raid them with anymore (see above about me being an idiot with a broken back). I'm sure you can see the feedback loop there .
I essentially lost all initiative in this war, if I ever had any.

I wish you wouldn't ask to be put on AI and unbalance the game with that many provinces and just hand that many to 1 or 2 nations.

They're going to get them one way or the other - as I said, I don't have the means to protect them, nor prevent my enemies from building the stuff that'll ensure they get them. My initial build/strat was too slow and wouldn't have worked anyway, I completely dropped the ball on adapting it to my immediate neighbours and at this point even the astral summons I'm shooting for are going to be nothing more than a speed bump, if that.
Hell, even taking my forts won't be that costly for him.

I mean, seriously. Look at Yomi's troop graph. Now his fort graph. Now his research graph. Now his gem graph. Seen 'em ? Now tell me the story of how he's not going to turn Kailasa into a driveway doublequick, esp. with Ulm lending a hand .

I know real life can get in the way, but you are making it sound like you think you can not beat Yomi so you quit. We all agreed to fight it out to the last man.

It's a combination of both, really.

One the one hand, in retrospect I'd registered in too many games at once and it's really eating into my work time (or my work time is really eating into my gaming time ). The time it takes me to think through everything, plan, script, scheme, test out etc... for each game is really above what I had anticipated, and a thousand times longer than playing turns against the AI.
Maybe it's because I'm not as clever as I thought I was or I obsess too much about things, but it takes me a good 2 hours to play one turn in one game. I really can't do this adequately for 3 games at once - and considering how badly I'm doing in them, I'd really need to spend even *more* time than that thinking about each
TL;DR: in the future I'll only play the one game.

And on the other hand this particular game doesn't look like it's going to be very interesting for me from here on out. I already know how things are going down from here, seeing as I've been fighting those same 2 players in another game (Silicon Wolves). I don't really mind the losing itself, but losing against the exact same people in the same way for the same reasons twice in a row (well, in parallel rows really ) is a bit demotivational, you know ? I did the tooth and nail thing against those two once and I'm profoundly dejected at having to do it again so soon.

'sides, haven't you noticed ? I'm *already* down to the last man. Well, woman. The rest are a handful of monkeys and 40 odd pigs

Now. I also realize it'd not be cool of me at all to turn AI overnight, which is why I'm warning of my waning of motivation well in advance. This should give y'all time to either find a sub who's more into lost causes than me right now ; or to shift your diplos and grand strategies around in preparation for the inevitable rapid demise which would immediately follow from Kailasa going AI.

Originally Posted by MockingBird

To that I'll add that folding when the game is turning against you will only encourage other players to attack you in other games, creating a vicious downward spiral.

On the other hand, fighting it out to the bitter end means that people know a victory against you will not come easily, encouraging them in the future to look for easier pickings elsewhere.

Well, as I said, I've already done/am doing the tooth-and-nail thing against those two in Silicon Wolves. Cost them quite a bit, I believe. Or hope.
But it obviously hasn't put the Fear of God into them so either your statement is not absolutely true, or my fighting back style is so laughably ineffective it doesn't even matter

[Ragnars Wolves]

I understand how you can feel, and I guess I have been guilty of just throwing everything at them at one time and just clicking turns. But that is usually when I only have 2 or 3 provinces, out of everything and I am actually wishing they would hurry up and get it over with.

I have also been known to try and Kill 1 commander that has been a pain in my Butt the whole game, when it gets down to that time. i set all my resources and magic for one final push and then it is Soooooooooooo satisfying if it works, and makes it like I go out with a bang so they will remember me.

OK, you have made a case for what you need to do for yourself, and your RL time. Please try your best for a few turns while I ask for someone that will take over a bad position.

There are Vets out there that LIVE to do that....If for no other reason than to test stuff out and they really CAN be a Pain to their neighbors that thought it was going to be easy.

I will post for one today in both forums.

Thank you for playing and giving notice. I will let you know in a couple of turns what we need to do, please keep fighting and leave your nation in the best possible shape for the mext guy.

[nrasch]

I'll take the open spot/sub if it is still open.

I'm also on IRC as 'LeafyBits' if you want to chat some.

[Hylobius]

Kobal2, given the fight that you are putting up in Silicon Wolves I'm really surprised that you would consider dropping at this point in Kindanew, but if that is what you need to do. When you say that you are losing to the same two people in the same way that is not really true. In SW you have been fighting four people, and you have been kicking my butt, so I don't see what you have to be dejected about. Also, I hope that you don't think that anything from SW has spilled over into this game. Early in this game when you expanded too close to my capital and were topping the charts I had no choice but to fight you and ally with any neighbors that you had.

Ulm

[Kobal2]

Originally Posted by Ragnars Wolves

OK, you have made a case for what you need to do for yourself, and your RL time. Please try your best for a few turns while I ask for someone that will take over a bad position. [...]
Thank you for playing and giving notice. I will let you know in a couple of turns what we need to do, please keep fighting and leave your nation in the best possible shape for the mext guy.

Sure thing - I'm not about to send all the yaksha at him with kamikaze pendants or anything .

Thank you for understanding, and I really apologize for this.

Originally Posted by Hylobius

When you say that you are losing to the same two people in the same way that is not really true. In SW you have been fighting four people, and you have been kicking my butt, so I don't see what you have to be dejected about. Also, I hope that you don't think that anything from SW has spilled over into this game. Early in this game when you expanded too close to my capital and were topping the charts I had no choice but to fight you and ally with any neighbors that you had.

I wouldn't dream of accusing you (or him) of bringing stuff from SW - I absolutely understand why the situation got this way, why you contacted Yomi, why they were only too eager to ally etc... That was not my point. I mean, I *was* going to roll you

The point is, in both games I stupidly trusted an NAP with FG to mean long-term security ; in both games he's thoroughly out-thought, out-played and out-predicted me ; and in both games you've been juuuust enough threat and annoyance to hamstring me without really committing much, while at the same time requiring too much effort to take down quickly without getting thoroughly rampaged by him. You two make a great tag team. Which is why I'm not enthusiastic about facing it again, except this time FG's got tons of resources to draw from

ETA : just got a mail saying the e-mail address has been changed, I assume nrasch got the sub ?

[Ragnars Wolves]

Yes....thanks for staying in and not abandoning the game!!

I have changed the E-mail address and re-sent him the turn.

Do NOT set it to AI or anything (lol, I have no idea as I am flying by the seat of my pants) but I think you can just delete it now.

Good luck and when you get things squared away, will see you back

Gentlemen Say hello to our new player and sub!!

[nrasch]

Hi hi all.

First, Kobal2, thank you for letting me try out your spot. It should be fun and challenging to pick up where you left off.

Second, thank you to everyone else for letting me join. I'm excited to be here, and I'm looking forward to the game.

I should get started on my turn here shortly!

Nathan