APC Development and related topics.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by DRG

Yeah, call back in three years and I'll jump right on it.........

Deal

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Alright here's the APC items I promised last week. Some update info as well on a couple of game entered equipment from Patch 5.5. Others are program updates for the USA, USMC, Canada and Columbia.

1) Iraqi second shipment of the BTR-4 from the Ukraine on the way. As was noted prior to and at submission there were a couple of issues with the BTR-4 that were rectified but, caused the delivery to slip on the first shipment until 4/2011. Game entered for 1/2011again within the six month "swag" so would recommend no action.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2422.html
UPDATE.

2) Iraq again, to update their M113A2s, this should bring them up to the latest USA game version. Work being done by BAE and the USA Anniston Depot. Work to be completed this month.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/febru...q_1002121.html
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...for-iraqi-army
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
ADD.

3) Staying with the above theme, BAE to update Brazil's M113B to the M113A2 MKI standard work has begun, thinking enough will be configured for a 01/2013(?) fielding date. Work to be completed in 11/2013 on all units.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem...l_2412111.html
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/30944/
ADD.

4) Russian Army did get the BPM-97 after all. I went ahead and submitted this in my first equipment submission, we had some reservations as we knew that the Russian Border units (And basis for the original submission.) had them along with the Internal Security Forces but, the info was "vague" about the Army. Will recheck original fielding date submitted, but based on this ref. thinking 01/2009.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/bpm-97-apc/
ADD.

5) Columbia looking for an AFV. Italy makes an offer and the STYKER passes field tests, refs 1 & 2 respectively.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=58
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=58
TRACK.

6) Don't think this was addressed, but France gets the BvS10. France took delivery of 53 units at the time of this ref. these are the same as the UK & Dutch units, will recommend fielding of 01/2012. Sweden to also get this, fielding for theirs 06/2013.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...bvs10-vehicles
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...king-from-bae/
VERIFY/ADD IF NEEDED/Sweden ADD.

7) Indonesia orders BMP-3 from Russia. This refs indicates also that the Russian Army stopped ordering them in 2010. Also they've bought more ANOA APCs as well, also a "first entry". I believe the version shown in the 2nd ref is the one being brought.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/febru...3_0102121.html
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
VERIFY/ADD IF NEEDED.

8) Kenya buys APC from Israel.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=55
VERIFY/ADD

9) NEXTAR offers the VBCI for Canadas CCV Program. Testing is on going currently at the Aberdeen Proving grounds in Maryland.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/decem...y_1812114.html
FYI/TRACK CCV Program.

10) Russia to field first BOOMERANG APC's by 2013. Mass deliveries by 2015. Thinking 01/2014 or 06/2014(?).
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
TRACK/ADD.

11) ST Kinetics submits the TERREX 8x8 for the USMC MPC Program. This is among the first "smart" APC's made, you'll find more info as with some already mentioned in the earliest posts made to this thread. This is an updated version to the one first submitted FYI. Of course since it's for the CORPS it's fully amphibious.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march...m_2503121.html
http://www.military-today.com/apc/terrex_av81.htm
FYI/TRACK MPC Program.

12) The CORPS is showing up the USA between their two programs, will the USA ever get their act together on the GVC? It remains to be seen, thank goodness the BRADLEY is as capable as it is. An update on the GCV Program. Reference 2 offers a couple of other options the USA is looking into.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...e-charm-07048/
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=59
FYI/TRACK GVC Program.

Well I believe that's all of them some again were put off, due to the great inputs by others for 6.0, truely a job well done.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Though worked on first, it'll be last, so ends the news blitz as all presented today and tomorrow (?) should close out the items I'll be submitting and tracking for the upcoming 2012/2013 Campaign after a short break for some game time that I haven't had since last fall. Any "Tail End Charlies will be posted up to 1 June. Have a Great Summer!!

1. USA assessing existing systems foe their GCV Program. Evaluations started just over a week ago. The new PUMA I see isn't being evaluated now it was being considered in an earlier maturation of the GCV Program. This is I believe the third restart for the program.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2441.html
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/35775/
http://www.armyrecognition.com/armie...m_2305122.html
FYI AND TRACK.

2. Norway buys more CV9030 MKII APCs.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product264.html
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/34701/
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...ifvs-from-bae/
FYI.

3. UK MOD committed to AFV SV Program.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2436.html
FYI AND PROGRAM TRACK.

4. More on Austria as this has already been posted earlier. The retirement of weapons systems to include armor to be completed by 2014, this date has remained unchanged from when first posted several months ago from different sources. This is more specific regarding other named systems then previous posts were.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...oured-vehicles
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/34696/
MODIFY UNIT END DATES AS ETHIER DEC 2013 OR JUN 2014.

5. More from Canada, this again sounds like the USA GCV Program but, it's their CCV Program. See we're really not so different after all!?!
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...oured-vehicles
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...ccv-programme/
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...anistan-05190/
FYI AND TRACK PROGRAM.

6. Ukraine mounting new ZTM-1 30mm onto it's BTR-3U/BTR-3E. Don't know up front if I'll get to this or not. I'll try to find more info on this weapon.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/33954/
MODIFY UNITS.

7. Argentina wants to purchase Brazil's VBTP-MR (Now add GUARANI.).
The first ref is better detailed info on the unit. Also we have pictures to use now where we didn't when first submitted.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/brazi..._pictures.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2...s_2205121.html
TRACK

8. Indonesia asks "Can I have another sir!" and orders more
BMP-3F's for their Marines.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...asia&Itemid=56
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...donesian-army/
FYI.

9. Columbia is shopping for new armored vehicles (And other equip.) because of their very busy neighbor to the south...Venezuela.
So let's start there first as this is a tale of two countries whose stories are linked together along with Brazil and a couple of others.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2...s_2305121.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2...m_2505121.html
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=58

So Columbia is reacting by...AND REMEMBER IF YOU HAVE TO BE #1, THIS ISN'T A BAD WAY TO START. Reportrd on this a couple of years ago but politics got in the way then concerning MERKAVA.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2...a_2405122.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april...e_2504121.html
TRACK.

10. Are you ready for a new BOXER? Germany is LANCE.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/weapo...1805125_2.html
TRACK.

11. Submitted for 5.5 or 6.0 the RTA is more then happy with their Ukrainian purchase. This is representative of reports made at the time from my other sources.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...cha-singa-2012
FYI.

I believe this is it for the APC's. Meant to have had this posted many hours, but a little nasty storm named BERYL radically altered my plans for today. To those in Jacksonville FL. I've seen on here I hope you and yours made it through alright. It'll be our turn overnight with 45-65mph with gusts to +70 winds and inches of much needed rain. Sorry Don it's been decades for an event like this here.

Happy Memorial Day! Don't forget about the one's who served that are no longer with us.

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Thanks to my little affliction with the "PI" and the summer cold that came with it at the end, a little more in this area as the news never stops. For Don it's good to see your sense of humor is intact, though if it had occurred in the woods the process might've been more fun!?!

1. I found this and the next from an unexpected source, however it shows the importance of diversification in the highly competitive world of defence industry news. Anyway a very good overview of the most current IFV Programs.
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....459519.xml&p=1
FYI.

2. A pretty good article and update on Germanys PUMA IFV, And for Don, there might be info here that might be useful if any modifacation is needed for German UNITS 99 & 100.
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article....p28-458567.xml
TRACK/FYI.

3. Iraq buys 500 to be refurbished Army MTLB APCs from Bulgaria. I believe these conform the ones CURRENTLY in the Iraqi OOB.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2473.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...q_1606124.html
FYI.

4. Norway will RESET all current CV-90s and increase current numbers with new unita as well. This is Norways largest Army Project since the end of the Cold War, and the reporting below shows that.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/...f9ced399b5ecfa
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...oured-vehicles
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...y_2206123.html
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...-vehicles-bae/
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/36764/
TRACK/ADD.

5. USA GCV Program lacking imagination?
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/36069/
FYI.

6. Swedish CV-9040 to be upgraded with EVO Protection package.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/35969/
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...d_0706121.html
http://www.ibd-deisenroth-engineerin...evolution.html
MODIFY/ADD.

7. USA/USMC updating LAV-AT vehicles with TOW ITAS, TI/GSR and turret system. The issue raised here is how current are the U.S. infantry TOW Systems as ITAS has been fielded since 2007? I sense another "rabbit hole" issue again!?! This ref provides further related links at the bottom.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...373/#more-7373
MODIFY/ADD/TRACK/INVESTIGATE ITAS Infantry use.

8. Raytheon displays full LRSS prototype as a further development of the LAV-III to the Canadian Army.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...-canadian-army
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...y_0206121.html
TRACK/MODIFY.

9. SCOUT SV (FRES) production has been pushed back to 2018 and won't be fielded until 2020, maybe. There's a reason why the CVT(R) was upgraded (And in the game after Don recovered my fumble on missing it's submission though posted. THANKS AGAIN!). First ref is for background.
http://www.army-technology.com/proje...alist-vehicle/
http://www.army-technology.com/news/...me-say-sources
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
TRACK DATES.

10. JAVELIN sucessfully test fired from an AV.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/june_...y_1606123.html
FYI/TRACK.

11. The USA says "we have enough" but Congrss has other thoughts on that.
http://www.defensenews.com/article/2...text|FRONTPAGE
FYI.

12. I believe in the 3-4years I've caused Don to lose his hair and more since submitting and modifying equipment issues, the BRADLEY has been there I think at least twice(?) well what's three "between friends". BUSK III is here, for game purposes the turrent enhanced survivbilty portion is at play-maybe. Don your call here.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/36742/
INVESTIGATE TURRET ISSUE/MODIFY.

I think my work is now finished here in the APC area. Don I'll post on the TOW issue elsewhere, I came across the date on ITAS from info I already had on hand.

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

I had little hair left before you came along, all you've done is made what's left simpler to look after.......

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Well it's been over 1/2yr. since I posted anything here but that's when things really went to as noted elsewhere so all I had was a reminder (R1.) note for the APC/IFV world in Patch Thread Post #2 for the 2012/2013 campaign. I promise there will be more next year in this area, Jets/Planes, SPA/SPAA and MRAPS to a lesser degree mostly in the Middle East, Africa and Near Asia. So...

APC Development…

R1. ADD/RUSSIA/JAN 2010/BTR-82/C3 P7 Both/TI/GSR 50 (3Km) Both/Weapons Turreted 14.5mm w/500Rds and coupled coaxial 7.62mm w/2K Rds/6 Smoke Dispensers and EW Both/BTR-82A/Weapons 2A72 30mm cannon w/500Rds and coupled coaxial 7.62mm w/2K Rds//These are Russia's most advanced APCs. It will replace the
BTR-70/80 series APCs. It is supposed to be fully amphibious. The 30mm ammo of the BTR-82A is supposedly a high density ramjet type projectile to allow it to inflict greater damage on targets. I keep coming up with 500 Rds for the 30mm on the NET. Sounds almost like the UK/French case mounted 40mm round of the FRES. Better armor protection then any BTR-80 variant.
Protection to the level of the BTR-90M for armor?
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi...res_video.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/russi..._pictures.html
http://www.deagel.com/Wheeled-Armore...000348008.aspx
Pic:

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Please cue the Monty Python intro...And now for something a little different. A little Spring cleaning is in order as the 2013/2014 Campaign is to start soon.

1) First up the CORPS in it's search to replace the EFV Program. Any more it seems the programs are running together. So by way of updating and cleaning up, here's where the CORPS is in the testing and evaluation process. The HAVOC 8x8 based on the coverage it's getting seems to be the front runner for now.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/us_ar...s_picture.html
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2504.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/augus...o_1708121.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april...n_0504133.html
Pic:

TRACK.

2) UPDATE: As submitted in the game, after all the legal issues as reported prior to and when submitted SWEDEN had recieved the first of it's PATRIA AMV's a slight date adjustment might be needed but will verify from the Patch Post and the game later.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2625.html
http://www.armyrecognition.com/march...s_0503133.html
VERIFY DATES.

3) UPDATE: Well the following is another example of everyone reports the "x equipment is being delivered..." Until unreported issues as R&D problems, Customer modifications (Think THAI OPLOT here as just addressed in a second Patch.), Contract issues, Economics, Order Cancellations etc. etc. make the "equipment submission business" such a PITA. I think Don and some others now understand why I work the way I do in trying to follow up on equipment I've "signed" my name to just because of the following. MAYLASIA UNITS 30-32 will need to be renamed and dates moved out to around 6/2015. However there is an upside. A. We know now it's the better protected AV-8 (PARS 8x8 stronger brother.) and have more specific data on it's capabilities and types ordered. B. It was customer modified. C. It will have an ATGW now mounted which was just conjecture when submitted in 2010(?). D. More on the FCS is now known as well. E. BETTER PICTURES!!! Alright that was reaching a bit. Anyway here's the data sheet...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/malay...res_video.html
MODIFY DATES AND WEAPONS/ADD NEW UNITS AS NOW IDENTIFIED.

4. UPDATE: As now in the USA OOB with a couple of issues already noted by Imp (John) and acknowledged by Don, I was going to submit this for the coming Campaign based on some of the info used to get the M1A2 SEP V2 into the game along with posts from the MBT Thread concerning the increased TI/GSR of some tanks in the game. Anyway I was looking to combine the BUSK III package and TI/GSR 50 issue into one BRADLEY submission. PLEASE PLEASE understand that beyond reading Johns thread on the topic I do not know nor have I checked at this time whether the two "new" BRADLEY's in the game have the BUSK Protection package or not.
So here's what I was going to submit for that unit.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/bradley/
http://www.army.mil/article/82060/Br..._under_budget/
http://www.baesystems.com/article/BA...3D1aljhv29un_4
Pic:

FYI for modifications(?)

5. RUSSIA and that darn BOOMERANG APC again. Prototype for 2013, this is older from last summer. No news of it to this point.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/july_...3_0707122.html
TRACK.

6. POLAND the ANDERS front has been quite for sometime now, however, last August they ordered 200 more 8x8 ROSMAKS.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
FYI.

7. RUSSIA likes wheels better then tracks a growing tread in the APC world.
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rope&Itemid=57
http://en.rian.ru/military_news/20120716/174633902.html
FYI.

8. USMC and it's MPC Program has selected SINGAPOREs TERREX 8x8 for testing as well, among others. I reported on TERREX in one of my first posts in this thread (Then as a 6x6.) It was developed by TIMOTHY...of Ireland and is one of the most advanced APC out there you probaly never heard about. Anyway...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/novem...m_0711121.html
http://www.dmilt.com/index.php?optio...rica&Itemid=59
TRACK.

9. UPDATE: I believe we were right on target for the BTR-82A. Don thanks for getting it in early.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/april...a_2104131.html
FOLLOW UP.

10. UPDATE: That darn EFV still in the news, but again for all the wrong reasons for this dead program. The issue is when the manufacturing equipment will be moved to Ga. to support the FANG Program (Just go with the flow here, the USMC has more "APC" programs going then most countries do!?!)
more jobs for us. Good background on how a fully supported project got out of control. F-35 fans pay attention here.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...v-aav-slep-mpc
FYI.

Alright been a busy week and not helping my cause by staying up any later, so for some have a good night and others have a great day or evening!

Regards,
Pat

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

A couple of "tail end charlies" that are an extension of the previous post. For me thank god, are FYI issues. The BRADLEY BUSK III one for Don will be of some use as we have a "full on" picture to use for ICON purposes. Sorry I missed these but it's the "vampire hours" I keep after work normally.

1. BRADLEY BUSK III...
http://www.armyrecognition.com/july_...t_1007126.html
If you missed it in the first refs provided earlier, you'll have noticed the first units equipped with them were in S. Korea. Don unless you see something I missed, it appears USA UNITS 305 & 899 will just need to be renamed, protection upgraded and require a new icon for one or both units and I hear you that's enough work!?!
ASSIGN REMINDER # in PP.

2. More on the USMC "Everything Future APC Amphib Program" or EFAAP. This is team BAE/IVECO with the SUPERRAV 8x8.
http://www.armyrecognition.com/may_2...d_1005131.html
If you haven't noticed, click on the yellow highlighted for links to the data sheets for the equipment and other info.
Gotta go, GOT is coming on! Day off priorities don't you know!?!

Regards,
Pat

[sabresandy]

Thanks for the information! It's nice to find a clearinghouse for the news from the defense industry.

I'd like to bring up some issues with the Russian APCs and IFVs in their OBAT, which is obat11. Patch 7.0 did a nice job of trimming out some of the cancelled BTR-90 variants; I'd like to take it a few steps further. First, let's look at the many MT-LB mods. Specifically, OBAT11 numbers 213 (MT-LBM-6M1A3), 332 (MT-LBM-6M1B2), 800 (MT-LBM-6MA), 801 (MT-LBM-6MB), and for that matter 872 (MT-LBM). To the best of my knowledge, these vehicles showed up once at an arms expo, and were promptly never heard from again. I find no reports of any of the MT-LB modifications actually coming into service.

Likewise, there are a number of programs that never seem to have taken off: they are units number 305 (BTR-70M), 787 (BMP-2 Berezhok), 788 (BMP-2M), 850 (BMP-2M (-)), and the heavy APCs 343-345 (all the BTR-Ts). While I believe the BMP-T is on order by the Russian army, I find no indication that the BTR-T is actually being produced. The rest, the BMP and BTR modification programs, appear to exist only in advertisements; the Russians don't look like they've bought off on them.

Pending confirmation, so far as it's possible with Russian military equipment, I think it's fair to delete all of these from the OBAT for Russia and for the RED force (wherever they overlap).

[DRG]

........ on the list to investigate


Don