OFF TOPIC - The IOC sucks. - Page 12

Phoenix-D · #**111** July 22nd, 2001, 02:16 AM

Hah! Off-topic squared!

Phoenix-D

CaptSpoogy · #**112** July 22nd, 2001, 02:41 AM

quote:
I would have to wonder how you propose to fix that.

The obvious answer to that sort of thing, really, is more influence.. in the other direction.

Phoenix-D

One way you could eliminate it is to change the way politicians are funded. So that special interest Groups (like Oil, Big Tobacco, NRA, etc) could buy off support...

Phoenix-D · #**113** July 22nd, 2001, 02:43 AM

quote:
Originally posted by capt_spoogy:
One way you could eliminate it is to change the way politicians are funded. So that special interest Groups (like Oil, Big Tobacco, NRA, etc) could buy off support...

Every single attempt to do that so far has had the result of creating masses of rules (so you need a laywer and MORE money), limiting free expresion, and gennerally making the "interest Groups" with money more powerful.

Phoenix-D

Marty Ward · #**114** July 22nd, 2001, 04:14 AM

Capt,
If you think the INS is bad try going the other way.

I had to do some work in Canada. Very simple warranty repair of a pump. 4 days, 5 forms and $250.00 later I was able to reach the job site in Edmonton. Cost my Canadian customer a few hundred thousand dollars. They certainly went through great lengths to be sure that some Canadian worker wasn't put out of work by me, even though the work was warranty. They even charged me for bringing my hand tools in. Amazing bureaucracy up there too.

You don't think the government is a special interest too?

Dragonlord · #**115** July 22nd, 2001, 06:39 AM

Wow, this thread is really moving fast. I just wanted to respond to Alpha Kodiak's response to my initial post here.

Things I like about living in the US: the standard of living, good consumer products, all my favorite games/books/movies come from here, less government restrictions on what you can/can't do than in Europe. It's a great place to live IF you have money.

What I dislike (or even hate) about the USA:
It's a ****ty place to live if you don't have money. That's true for most of the world, but more so in capitalistic countries.
I dislike the lack of gun-control. I dislike the litigation attitude, and how everybody is scared ****less of lawyers and always covering their asses. I am sad about how little the average american knows about the world outside his country or even his state.
I'm saddened by the overall lower level of education compared to, say, the Netherlands. I hate the immigration laws, and the opportunistic use of foreign talent.
Let me expand a bit on that, since that's what we were originally talking about.

Two years ago during the economic boom, hundreds of thousands of IT workers were brought to the US, most on H1-B visas. The INS calls them non-immigrant aliens.
I'm one of them. Here's how ****ty we are treated:

1) No matter how good your credit history in your own country, it doesn't count here. You start from scratch. Forget about buying a car or a house in the first two years or so that you're here.
2) Employment wise, up until a recent law-relaxation, we were like indentured servants. You're stuck with the company who sponsored you, if you loose your job for whatever reason they can legally deport you the next day. Non-H1-b visa holders (e.g L1 like myself) are still in this situation, the H1-B portability clause does not apply.
2b) Just like American employees, we get no job security whatsoever. If a manager has a bad hairday, PMS, whatever, they can fire you on the spot and there is nothing you can do. However unlike Americans, we do not get the "flip side of the coin" in that you can get a new job within days. We must find an employer who is willing to sponsor a visa all over again (which takes at least 3 months) and absorb the cost of being unemployed ourselves. With the way the economoy is right now, no matter how good your credentials are, no employer will expend that much effort to hire you. Easier to get an American.
3) So what do you do if you get laid off? Being European, I figured I could turn to the government for help, while I look for work. After all, I have been paying taxes, paying for Social Security, Medicare, Unemployment insurance, etc. So I try to claim for unemployment benefits. Hey, its only $400 a week but it helps pay the rent.
What does the Department of Labor tell me? You have no green card. Thus you have no rights, and can forget your benefits. Even though we make you participate in mandatory schemes (e.g. Social security) from which you can legally never reap any benefits.
Thank you for paying for the pension of our elderly folks though.
(by the way I am currently appealing this matter up to the highest State levels.)
4) Until you get a green card (takes 6-7 years) forget about planning a life. Forget about marriage, kids, buying a house, etc. Too risky, you could loose it all on any given day and be forced to return to your home country, on your own costs, and try to survive there.

I'm sorry if I sound bitter, but those are the cold hard facts from a Dutchman's point of view.

Now, back to SEIV to take my mind off things :-)

Alpha Kodiak · #**116** July 22nd, 2001, 10:41 AM

Dragonlord:

For what it's worth (and based on both your description and my friend's), I agree that the current immigration laws concerning "non-immigrant workers" such as yourself need to be fixed. The trouble is that most people born here have no contact with the immigration system and don't know how ridiculous the system is, or worse, don't care. If I hadn't been exposed to it through the ordeal of my friend, I wouldn't have known anything about it.

While I have defended the U.S. in a number of areas, you have a legitimate complaint. One of the things I get frustrated about by our government (trust me, there are others) is that we fight against illegal immigration, but then we make legal immigration difficult. It would seem to me to be more efficient to make it easier to immigrate legally, and use the savings in reduced efforts at rounding up illegals to generate more jobs for those who enter the country legally.

Atrocities · #**117** July 22nd, 2001, 10:48 AM

quote:
the Chinese are not stupid.

Indeed they are not, however, when the TV cameras are gone................. How many will pay once the spot light has been turned off?

CW · #**118** July 22nd, 2001, 02:05 PM

Atrocities, check out my two Posts near the beginning of this thread.

CaptSpoogy · #**119** July 22nd, 2001, 06:38 PM

Dragonlord - try Canada. There always looking for skilled IT workers and it's a lot easier to immigrate here...

------------------
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Quikngruvn · #**120** July 22nd, 2001, 08:14 PM

quote:
Originally posted by capt_spoogy:
Dragonlord - try Canada. There always looking for skilled IT workers and it's a lot easier to immigrate here...

I'd consider that myself it weren't so fricking cold!

Quikngruvn, who has never experienced more than six inches of snow at one time