OT: Which is better: XP or 2000? > Another Piracy Discussion

[Roanon]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:
Moral relativism only goes so far...

How far? There is no thing as an absolute moral. So there is a lot of relativsm possible...
It all depends on your personal point of view, your history, your culture, etc. Uncritically regarding the point you are currently at as the absolute and objective center of "correct" morals usually leads to intolerance, oppression and worse. History is full of examples where those who thought they had "god" or the "right" or the "moral" on their side committed the most heinous and foul crimes.

[Phoenix-D]

Originally posted by Imperator Fyron:

Umm... copying things is quite legal, as long as you keep the copies to yourself. I never said that copying musics, movies, etc. was illegal. As long as you have a legal license to own the material, you can make as many copies for personal use as you want. I said that acquiring copies made by someone else for something that you have no legal license to use is theft. [/quote]

Actually, it is illegal to make a copy of many games now. See, you're allowed to make a copy for personl use, but to do that you need to break the copy protection. And gee, breaking the copy protection is illegal..thanks to the DMCA.

And no, copyright violation is not theft. Not from a legal point of view and I don't think from an ethical point of view. In some cases its not as bad (ex: downloading songs you already own, but aren't in a format you can access) in some cases it is worse (ex: downloading a file then sharing it. Theft occurs once, this can spread exponentially)

[Fyron]

Let's try this again...

Definition of "steal" from www.m-w.com:

1 : to take the property of another wrongfully and especially as an habitual or regular practice
2 : to come or go secretly, unobtrusively, gradually, or unexpectedly
3 : to steal or attempt to steal a base
transitive senses
1 a : to take or appropriate without right or leave and with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully b : to take away by force or unjust means c : to take surreptitiously or without permission d : to appropriate to oneself or beyond one's proper share : make oneself the focus of
2 a : to move, convey, or introduce secretly : SMUGGLE b : to accomplish in a concealed or unobserved manner
3 a : to seize, gain, or win by trickery, skill, or daring b of a base runner : to reach (a base) safely solely by running and usually catching the opposing team off guard

Look at 1a. It would imply that downloading a song you have no right to own is stealing it. "to take or appropriate without right or leave" directly applies, as you have no right to take that music, as you did not pay for it. "with intent to keep or make use of wrongfully" also applies because you have no right to make use of or to keep the illegal copies of the song. How this does not add up to theft (which is just stealing in a different word) is incomprehensible to me.

[ December 03, 2003, 23:32: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[JayBdey]

Again, only the legal definition counts.

I don't care what m-w says.

The law says it is a different crime.

[Fyron]

Stop trying to force the language into rigidly defined "crimes". It is counter-productive and is the only way you can possibly be correct. "Steal" is a much more general term than as used in the technical details of the criminal code. There is a whole world out there beyond the criminal code.

[ December 03, 2003, 23:46: Message edited by: Imperator Fyron ]

[tesco samoa]

If the majority of people are commiting morally wrong acts. Perhaps it is not morally wrong anymore. Morals are based on what a society sees as what is right. Laws would change to reflect that. THen it would no longer be morally wrong to that society.


For tv adds and skipping look no further than dvd's and for recording content. Look no further than the pile of crap delaying digital tv... and the converters....

Some country in Europe has the law state that you can make a back up for 7 family memebers... Or something like that. Clarification from some one from that country please.

PS I would rather have a 'self-centered" and 'stubborn' fyron than a quiet passive fyron. Shows he passionate about what he thinks. Which in turn makes me think and I can tell it makes others think. Always remember you have the choice to agree or disagree.

[Gryphin]

I Feel
You can debate the �legality� of this till the internet stops working.
A person can get away with this indefinitely.

Isn�t the real issue here ethics ?

[JayBdey]

Then lets petition to remove the crime of copyright infringement since it's the same as stealing right?

Stealing would refer to taking something and thus depriving the owner of the use of it. Copyright Infringement is the crime of making a copy of something. It doesn�t deprive the owner of use of the original, but it is taking their software/music with out you owning the license.

It's a small difference, but enough to merit a different crime.

[Fyron]

Again with the crime definitions... Both the crimes of theft and copyright infringement involve stealing something. They are different forms of stealing, but they are still stealing. Refer back to my post with the definition of "steal". Stealing a loaf of bread gets you charged with petty theft. Stealing a car gets you charged with grand theft auto. Both crimes are different, yet both involve stealing. Just like stealing ideas is still stealing them.

[Phoenix-D]

Fyron, I said legal and ethical, not dictionary. Stop posting that, I saw it the first time and it isn't relevent.