Fleeting w/Bases - causing one problem while fixing another

jim · #1 August 14th, 2002, 02:32 AM

OK -

The game had an exploit that became well known, even notorious. Namely, all bases had an implicit Quantum Reactor such that joining them to a fleet replaced all Supply. It made Resupply Facilities less valuable and even reduced Supply effects.

However, I used Bases in Planetary Defense Fleets for another reason, and that appears to have been defeated by the fix.

The problem was that defending ships would sortie kamikaze-fashion beyond the support range of ground and orbiting defenses. I "fixed" this problem by making Planetary Defense Fleets have a Base as the flagship under a firing scheme that did NOT have the ships break formation.

Result: The ships stayed within the Base firing support, and that of Sats and WPs. It was an elegant solution that greatly enhanced planet defense.

Now, that is no more.

Q-

Is there any other way to fix the Base QR exploit w/o ending this little tactic? Now, with Bases unable to join fleets, I can not do as I have done.

(Whine, whine, whiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine)

Phoenix-D · #2 August 14th, 2002, 02:58 AM

To get around it in the current situation: make a cheap speed 0 something. Ship maybe, or anything that can't move and CAN be fleeted.

Phoenix-D

geoschmo · #3 August 14th, 2002, 03:11 AM

Quote:

from settings.txt in new patch:
Bases Can Join Fleets := False

But if you want to fleet with the bases and have them not have a built in QR, then SJ has in his mod base size ships that aren't allowed to have engines I believe.

But Phoenix's idea is a good one for stock games though. Very good actually. Simply make a ship with no engines and make that your fleet leader.

Geoschmo

[ August 14, 2002, 02:15: Message edited by: geoschmo ]

Baron Munchausen · #4 August 14th, 2002, 03:37 AM

Why is being able to resupply by fleeting with a base an 'exploit'? Isn't that what a BASE is for? If you accidently have a map where there are several empty systems in sequence there may be no other way to cross the 'void' in the early or mid game and find other useful systems than to build bases and use them as stepping stones.

But I agree that ships are really stupid about planetary defense. Even unarmed ships. What transport captain in his right mind would run AWAY from a heavily armed planet with an enemy fleet approaching? Yet that's what unarmed ships will do right now.

It's easy to pick off all the unarmed ships present at a major military base by just sending some ships 'around' the planet to the far corners of the combat grid to wipe them out. Your ships ought to be intelligent enough to stay within range of a planet's armament without resorting to special tricks. And attacking ships ought to be smart enough to stay OUT of range of the planet's armament if other ships in the fleet have greater range weapons (missiles) and can use them.

[ August 14, 2002, 02:40: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]

PvK · #5 August 14th, 2002, 05:01 AM

It sounds like a better fix would have been to simply make bases (optionally) not share supplies with others in their fleet. And/or, to make the base resupply ability a low-tech component, and then make such bases automatically resupply ships WITHOUT fleeting, the way a resupply depot does.

PvK

Cylapse · #6 August 15th, 2002, 04:35 PM

I totally agree -- its not an exploit at all. Case in point, DS9...
"Sorry, Captain... We only have enough to maintain our own station, you must go to Bajor for fuel. Or -- try Cardassia. I hear they're nice."

Bases are nearly useless without some kind of refueling potential. Its the point of them not having engines, they sit and dont waste away as much fuel (in our case any) so that they have room for for support facilities and such... But I do think a component would be nicer, that way a measure of control was allowed.

[ August 15, 2002, 15:39: Message edited by: Cylapse ]

geoschmo · #7 August 15th, 2002, 05:10 PM

Couldn't agree more. In fact most of the beta testers agreed. That's the reason he added the settings.txt option, cause we threw a fit when he made that change. I wish we could have got him to make the default option for base fleeting true, and allow people to change it in mods instead the other way round, but ah well. Apparently someone made a quite compelling case to him against the ability. Not sure who it was though.

Geocshmo

tbontob · #8 August 15th, 2002, 06:51 PM

Baron Munchausen says:

Quote:

It's easy to pick off all the unarmed ships present at a major military base by just sending some ships 'around' the planet to the far corners of the combat grid to wipe them out.

Question from a newbie who is still running 1.67

How do you set your strategy to do this?

My ships do break formation but have the hots to pummel the planet...even when I set colony ships/carriers/transports as the first priority.

tesco samoa · #9 August 15th, 2002, 07:02 PM

Stock ships do not get the reduction in maintence fee's and now bases will not be able to generate that extra 20% of experence.... Perhaps The game should have been changed to add Base supply which is unlimited

Baron Munchausen · #10 August 15th, 2002, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tbontob:
Baron Munchausen says:

quote:
It's easy to pick off all the unarmed ships present at a major military base by just sending some ships 'around' the planet to the far corners of the combat grid to wipe them out.

Question from a newbie who is still running 1.67

How do you set your strategy to do this?

My ships do break formation but have the hots to pummel the planet...even when I set colony ships/carriers/transports as the first priority.

I'm speaking of tactical combat.

I don't know if it can be done with strategies alone. If so, you'd have to make a special strategy to NOT fire on planets and set unarmed ships as first priority. Maybe setting 'Don't Get Hurt' as the secondary movement stategy would make the ships 'run away' from the planet when not in range of the targets? You'd have to experiment.