US OOB 12 comments

[Griefbringer]

I have a number of mainly minor comments on US OOB. I will start with the units.


1.) 2.5 ton trucks (units 038 and 170)

Currently there are two different 2.5 ton trucks in the OOB, namely units 038 (2&1/2 Ton Truck)and 170 (2&1/2 w/AAMG).

Based on the unit names, I would expect these to have similar profiles. However, this is not quite the case: unit 170 has larger size (3 vs. 4) and carry capacity (118 vs. 124). I would suggest making the profiles closer to each other.


2.) 60 mm mortar section (unit 47)

This unit is armed with three mortars and M1/M3 SMG. However, at least 1944 TOE for rifle company gives mortar section armament as 4 rifles (for NCOs), 7 carbines and 6 pistols, but no SMGs. Thus, I would like to suggest replacing those SMGs with M1 carbine.


3.) HMG sections, 11/42 onwards (units 174, 455 and 456)

Same comment as with 60 mm mortar section previously: these are armed with two M1917 MGs, M1/M3 SMG and hand grenades, while 1944 TOE gives section armament as 3 rifles (for NCOs), 6 carbines (8 if you count drivers) and 4 pistols. Thus, I would again suggest replacing the SMGs with M1 carbines for at least some of the following units:

- Unit 174 (availability 11/42 - 6/43)
- Unit 455 (availability 7/43 - 12/44)
- Unit 456 (availability 1/45 - 12/46)


Mentioned 1944 rifle battalion TOE, specifying official armament for all individuals, can be found at:

http://www.bayonetstrength.150m.com/.../battalion.htm

[Griefbringer]

Then some comments on formations:


4.) Glider infantry battalion support 43 (unit 163)

In game terms this is a rather clumsy platoon, though it apparently represents actual support company. I would suggest changing this into actual company, consisting of HQ, MG platoon and mortar platoon.


5.) Para battalion support 42 & 45 (units 166 and 167)

These are also rather clumsy platoons in game terms, though they represent actual support companies. I would suggest changing these into actual companies, consisting of HQ, two MG platoons, mortar platoon and bazooka section (for 45 version).


6.) Ranger company ETO (unit 323)

This company is rather clumsy, with everything except mortars bundled into single formation. I would suggest splitting this into actual platoons, giving company HQ, two ranger platoons (needs new formation) and mortar section (which could maybe use formation 1255 instead of current 1346).


7.) Armoured engineer company (unit 355) and Combat engineer company (unit 356)

Both of these units have rather clumsy company HQs, consisting of engineer squad, three MG sections and three trucks. Perhaps those MGs could be split into their own platoon (Motor MG platoon?).


8.) Cannon Company 43 (unit 367)

Currently this is represented in game as a single platoon. However, according to field manual 7-37 (can be found here: http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USA/ref/FM/ ) this company was often deployed as three independent platoons (each of two guns), typically with one platoon supporting each of the three infantry battalions of regiment. Thus, I would suggest changing this formation into a company, consisting of three platoons of two guns each (needs probably new formation for the platoon).


9.) MG support (unit 106)

I cannot think of any historical formation that matches the contents of this unit. Am I missing something, or is this purely an in-game construction? Not a big deal, I am just a bit puzzled.

[Griefbringer]

And one more comment for now:

10.) Mortar section in infantry companies (many units)

In basic infantry companies (units 223-225) 60 mm mortar section is a separate sub-formation (1255). However, there are many rifle company variants where this mortar team is still part of the company HQ. This includes following formations:

226 - Co Team 42
227 - Co Team 43
228 - Co Team 45
234 - Mtn Inf Co 44
236 - Mtn Inf Co 45
239 - Co Team 46
240 - Co Tm 46 (2)
246 - Co Tm 42 (2)
247 - Co Tm 43 (2)
248 - Co Tm 45 (2)
249 - Co Team 44
450 - Inf Co (green)
451 - Inf Co (green)
452 - Inf Co (green)
454 - Veteran Inf Co
455 - Veteran Inf Co

With all of these formations, I would suggest making the mortar section into an independent sub-formation, rather than part of company HQ. (Though if you want to make an exception, maybe green companies could have it as part of company HQ, making them a bit unwieldier than the rest.)

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Griefbringer

9.) MG support (unit 106)

I cannot think of any historical formation that matches the contents of this unit. Am I missing something, or is this purely an in-game construction? Not a big deal, I am just a bit puzzled.

All this is now on the list to check when I start OOB work but without looking I would guess the MG support unit was originally a unit designed for the AI to use but I won't know for sure until I actually look

[Mobhack]

Or it is likely to be one of the little formations that get provided so that a human user can buy a section or platoon of whatever it is, rather than have to go for "official" TO&E messes.

HE may want to buy simply 2 bazookas or ATR or light trucks rather than the "official" TO&E chart support unit of let us say 2MGs. a light mortar and 2 bazookas per rifle coy or platoons of perhaps 7 light trucks and a carrier pigeon section per the Ruritanian Army's TO&E. He just wants those 2 "vanilla" bazookas or trucks or whatever and not the rest of the officialy sanctioned bundle for whatever purpose - scenario design or he only has a few points remaining or whatever.

Such unlinked little formations of 1 or 2 or more tanks, trucks, scouts, MGs, inf-AT, sniper etc are almost always present to give this choice to the human end user, as well as sometimes being used in the AI pick list as well.

They will only confuse someone who has the idea that each and every OOB formation has to fit some national "official" historically verified TO&E chart. That is simply not the case.

Andy

[PvtJoker]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

They will only confuse someone who has the idea that each and every OOB formation has to fit some national "official" historically verified TO&E chart. That is simply not the case.

Andy

“The horror! The horror!”

[Griefbringer]

Andy makes a valid point.

That said, at the moment unit 106 (MG support) is a bit clumsy: it consists of 2 MMG sections (M1919) and 2 HMG sections (M1917), where as weapons company MG platoon consists of 2 HMG sections.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Griefbringer

Andy makes a valid point.

That said, at the moment unit 106 (MG support) is a bit clumsy: it consists of 2 MMG sections (M1919) and 2 HMG sections (M1917), where as weapons company MG platoon consists of 2 HMG sections.

It's not UNIT 106.......... is it ?? It's a formation and really SO WHAT ?? I fail to see just what the "problem" here is. If you find that formation " a bit clumsy" then don't use it, use the MG Platoon. What's the problem ?? Did you consider that someone else may find being able to buy MMG's and HMG's together is convenient ?


Don

[Griefbringer]

Originally Posted by DRG

It's not UNIT 106.......... is it ?? It's a formation

DOH! I just realised that in my second post I have by accident consistently called formations as units many times.

How embarrassing, and now it is too late to edit those posts anymore.