French 105mm post WW2 artillery

[DRG]

If anyone has solid info on when the French stopped using the 105mm howitzer please let me know. I've been running into dead ends as I've been searching for this and can find better info on French Napoleonic guns.

Right now in the game we have the M101 FH running 1946 - 2020 .....something I HIGHLY doubt. I'm guessing they went OOS around the time the SP 105's did but the only reference I've found is the suggestion they were used in Indochina which is only slightly helpful. The possibility exists that there may have been another 105 produced but I can find nothing so if anyone does have any info it would be very helpful

Thanks


Don

[Suhiir]

You're right there's not much to find.
Here are the ONLY references to French use of 105's I can find.

105mm M-1950 howitzer (M101 and M101A1)
Used during the First Indochina War.
Phased out of service many years ago (probably with the introduction of the Mk F3 self-propelled 155mm gun) but four are still in service with Côte d'Ivoire.

OTO Melara Mod 56
Italian, produced 1957. Was used by French Mountain Troops.

LG1 105 mm towed howitzer
Produced by GIAT Industries (now Nexter group) of France as a private venture, specifically for the export market.

AMX-13
Export models were available with the Obusier automoteur de 105mm Modele 50 (105mm M-1950).

AMX-10RC
Reconnaissance vehicle first equipped French forces in 1981 (2nd Regiment de Hussards). Production of the first version stopped in 1994, with all versions after that being the upgraded AMX-10RC 105 TML versions.
AMX Reference

References to a French SP 105mm (in French)
#1
#2
#3

[DRG]

Yep, that's pretty much what I found as well. I think the answer is going to be on a French Language website ( or in a book I don't own......)


and the LG1 is used by

Belgium: Belgian Army - 14[1]
Indonesia: Indonesian Marine Corps - 20[1]
Thailand: Royal Thai Army - 24[1]

Don

[centurion77]

Canada also has the LG1 in service.
As for the M101 in French service, I recall a reference during OP TACAUD in 1978 of An M101 battery being used in support of Marine, Legion and Chadian troops.

[Richard_H]

Just run across this thread cos I've been updating my own database.

The LG1 is, I think, quite well documented, and probably replaced the M101 as a field piece. The interesting one (for me) is the GIAT M1950, which according to my d/base was a development of the lfH43. However, it is much closer in calibre to the M101, so I wonder? My other suspicion is that, as there is nothing available when Googling "GIAT M1950 105mm" (this forum was top of the list), it may have been used solely on the Mk.61 SP. However, my d/base reckons that it was quite widely sold - which the Mk.61 wasn't.

Started my d/base long before I ran across SP, and it was originally entirely book-based. However, I can't give you an exact reference (didn't start keeping them till I met Don :>))), altho I suspect that a lot of my original info came from Janes Armour & Artillery 1984 - which has since turned out to be one of the least reliable Janes ever produced . . . .

Richard H

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

I must've been asleep when this thread first came up!?! Anyway we've been back and forth on this and other issues in the French OOB Thread currently three or four below this one. So for some you've seen this, for others who haven't this was the latest from a few days ago on this topic from the aforementioned thread...

"Well I've just checked my email and got my answer from Ft. Sill. First I'll post my reply from the British Royal Artillery Museum again. I think I could really use the help of our French contributors out there, take a trip to Paris and go the main Military Museum and please ask someone there for me concerning the use of the 105mm field howitzer. Well I've got to 2021 I guess, I still feel that 1995-1997 is the best answer during Frances involvement in Africa during mid 1990s. A photo search is in order along with a couple of cards still up my sleeve.

From the Royal Artillery Library, Woolwich‏
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5/08/12 Reply ▼Reply
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Paul Evans at Royal Artillery Museum Paul Evans at Royal Artillery [email protected]
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From: Paul Evans at Royal Artillery Museum ([email protected])
Sent: Tue 5/08/12 9:17 AM
To: patrickjconklin@

Ref. May.39
8th May 2012

Dear Mr Conklin

Thank you for your recent communication.

I’m afraid our holdings on French artillery aren’t as comprehensive as you would wish.

The 105mm Mk61 SP Howitzer on an AMX13 light tank chassis was taken into service in 1958 after ten years of making do with the Second World War vintage towed variant. By 1990 these had been reduced to Reserve use only.

The 1989-1990 edition of Jane’s Armour & Artillery states “During the mid to late 1960s GIAT developed the prototype of a 105mm light gun known as the Canon 105LTR. The prototype was not developed further but with the formation of the French Rapid Reaction Force (FAR) there arose the need for replacement of the French Army’s existing 105mm M101 and 105mm Model 56 Pack Howitzers. The Canon 105 LTR was revived for a while during the mid 1980s but has now been replaced with an updated model known as the LG1. The 105mm LG1 Light gun was a private venture developed by GIAT’s Etablissement d’Etudes et de Fabrications d’Armement de Bourges. By early 1987 three prototypes had been produced and these were followed by three pre-production weapons. As of May 1989 no firm orders for the GAIT 105mm LG1 Light gun had been placed.”

The 1999-2000 edition of Jane’s Armour & Artillery expands to include “Late in 1990, following a competition between GIAT Industries with the 105mm LG1 Light Gun and Royal Ordnance of the UK with their 105mm Light Gun, Singapore placed an order for 37 of the 105mm LG1 Light gun. Early in 1994, Indonesia placed a firm order for 20 105mm LG1 Mk II Light guns. In June 1994 the Canadians placed an order for 28 and in 1995 the Belgian Army ordered 14.


I hope this is of some assistance. I should add that as an independent museum we are dependent on visitor income and charges for research enquiries in order to support our facilities. Although there will be no charge for answering this enquiry, a donation is always welcome. Those wishing to make a donation should send a cheque made out to ‘Royal Artillery Museums Ltd’, and send it to the Historical Secretary, The Royal Artillery Museum, Royal Arsenal (West), Warren Lane, Woolwich, London SE18 6ST. Or if it’s easier you can visit www.justgiving.com/firepower/donate and we would ask you title your donation “Because of the Library”

Yours sincerely

Paul Evans

Librarian

The latest...

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Blaker, Gordon A CIV (US) Blaker, Gordon A CIV (US)[email protected]
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From: Blaker, Gordon A CIV (US) ([email protected])
Sent: Mon 12/03/12 4:34 PM
To: patrickjconklin@ (patrickjconklin@)


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Greetings,

Sorry, I've gotten nothing on French use of those 105mm howitzers. My best suggestion is Jane’s Armour and Artillery which I have found is about the best source for determining who was using what when. It makes sense that the Marines and FFL would be the last to use them. One possibility for leads might be Michael Franz who edited the Tankograd TM on the 105. I've no idea how to contact him. Also, members of the European branches of the Military Vehicle Preservation Association might have some leads.

Best of luck I know the feeling I’m trying to figure out how to adjust track tension of a WWII German Hummel,

Gordon Blaker

Director/Curator

US Army Artillery Museum

Fort Sill, OK


Classification: UNCLASSIFIED
Caveats: NONE

Well I've always said this was a PITA. Now however, let's just say "It's my PITA and Windmill!?!"

Have a Great Day everyone! I NEED SOME SLEEP!

Regards,
Pat"

I should've added when this was first posted that in my hand written letter to Ft. Sill I had included a copy of my email to the Royal Artillery Museum along with the above reply.

So again...
Regards,
Pat