Czech OOB 5.5 - Page 2

Pibwl · #1 September 23rd, 2011, 04:48 PM

Many suggestions concerning Czechoslovak/Czech OOB. Much info is based upon a Czech page http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/36231 (it has English equivalent http://en.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/36231 but most pages are in Czech only anyway) - seems very detailed and rather complete inventory of Czechoslovak equipment. There is also a reliable-looking service http://vojenstvi.cz with Q&A on the CS Army (in Czech).

#004, 007, 021 TO-54, TO-55, TO-34 - Czechoslovakia almost certainly didn't use flamethrower tanks (as most - if not all Warsaw Pact countries but the USSR). They aren't listed on valka.cz. Also an article on the Czech flame tank prototype MP-1 in HPM 6/93 magazine suggests, that no flame tanks were bought by the CS army.

#010 T-55AM1 - according to http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_69.htm (no.1027), first 40 prototype units of Kladivo FC system were delivered in 1982. So maybe starting date should be 1983? (now it's 1984). According to this page, ammunition in modernized variants was lowered to 38 rounds (due to FC system blocks): 18 HE, 4 AP, 6 HEAT, 10 APDS. The name could be changed to T-55AM1 Kladivo - it was quite common, although it wasn't official tank name.

#011 T-55AM2 - the name could be changed to T-55AM2 Kladivo. Ammunition should be 38 rounds (see above)

#013 T34/76 M1943 - designation M1943 wasn't used in practice (rather in modern books) and is useless, since there is only one T-34/76 in OOB. There should be "T-34" rather than "T34"

#22 IS-3 - according to an article in HPiM and http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/465 only 2 were bought, although they were used in line unit. More numerous were IS-2 - 8 tanks from 1946 until probably mid-50s (http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_9.htm , no.132), so maybe it should be changed (or IS-2 should be added).

#23 SU-76M - also known locally as LSD-76, if we'd like to add flavour instead of recognizability (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/.../292874#292874 ). According to table at http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_51.htm used only from some 1950 until at least 60 (now:46-55). Wouldn't need change in formations date if we add SD-75/40N (Stug-III) in this class (see below).

#24 SU-85 - the quoted pages don't mention that any were used in CS.

Could be replaced with SD 75/40N (StuG-IIIG), used from 1946 (in significant numbers from 9/47) until 1954, stored until 1960 - http://en.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/79297 . No side skirts, presumably some Soviet AAMG.

#25-27 SU-100 - local designation was SD-100 (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/38481 )

#28 SU-100M - 14.5mm AAMG should be verified. It was very uncommon weapon in all Soviet bloc, as a tank AAMG. None of photos of Czech SU-100 on a page above shows any AAMG, especially huge one, with no mention in a text either.

#29 ISU-152 - also known locally as TSD-152 (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/36231 ). According to http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_9.htm (No.132), they were stored until 1972, so they could be given to border guard in case of emergency.

#30 BRDM-1 Shmel - (2P27 Shmel vehicle) - only 1 was delivered to Czechoslovakia, in 1962/63 for tests (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/23021 ). To be removed in my opinion. Anyway, proper picture is 29057 and it carried only 6 missiles.

#31 BRDM-1 Falanga (2P32) - to be removed from all countries but USSR - according to this Russian page http://cris9.narod.ru/rva_2p32.htm there are no signs of their export. Not mentioned on quoted pages either.

#32 BRDM-2 Fal.-M1 (9P137) - to be removed from all countries but USSR - according to this Russian page http://cris9.narod.ru/rva_9p137.htm it wasn't exported. There are also no signs of their service in CS.

#33 BRDM-2 Malutka - the quoted inventory and http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_50.htm (no.745) strongly suggest, that Czechoslovakia used only 9P133 Malutka-P (unit #36) - this unit is 9P122 Malutka-M, with older missiles. It should be changed to early variant of #36 unit, with #155 missiles (introduced in 1975). Would need #82 formation change, being earliest and leading unit (instead of 433/434 units).

#34 BRDM-2 Konkurs - proper pic is 29253. It carries 15 missiles (now it has 10) (source: http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/21963 and others). More proper name is 9P148 Konkurs. According to http://toulky.vojenstvi.cz/foto_index.php?fid=571 they were delivered in second half of 1980s (now it's 1979).

#35 MT-LB/82 - the quoted inventory nor other sources doesn't mention such SP-mortar in CS service (in fact I've found only vague info, that such variants were developed in Bulgaria and currently in Russia, with no info if they were ever produced or exported). Definitely to be removed. Formations #15, 16 should be changed according to earliest unit #417.

#36 BRDM-2 Malutka - better name is BRDM2 Malutka-P or 9P133 Malutka-P. Used from 1975 (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/21966 ) (now it's 1990). It carried 6 missiles and 8 reloads. There could be created two units with different vision (I suggest instead of unit #33). It should be earliest unit in #82 formation. By 2011 they were withdrawn (http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_50.htm -no.745), probably even several years before.

#37 SU-76M - also known locally as LSD-76, used circa 1950-60 (see #23) (needs change in #53 formation date)

#38 2S7M Malka - according to http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/10549 and http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_81.htm (no.1202) it was just basic 2S7 Pion variant and used until 1993 (now it's 120). Used from 1984, but I don't know when exactly (now it's 1985).

#39 2S1 Gvozdika - according to http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/12583 , first 4 introduced in 1976 (now it's 78). They should have no AAMG (what is evident on photos and concerns all countries).

#41 BTR-40A - the quoted inventory and http://vojenstvi.cz/ doesn't mention any BTR-40. CZ-Wikipedia doesn't list Czechoslovakia among users of BTR-40 and I've found no other signs on their usage in CS either. Removal makes gap in #18 and #52 formations (unit #415 might be extended).

#42, 43 T-54AM1/AM2 - could be named Kladivo (as #10)

#45 9K31 Strela-1M - just for information: according to http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/9086 , only 4 were used since 78 (it's OK then, although not numerous)

#47 SA-75 Dvina - proper icon is 4548

#51 BTR-40 - see #41 - no signs of their usage in CS. Gap in armoured car formations could be filled creating other AC from 1946, like Humber LRC.

#52 BRDM-1 - BRDM-1s were very rarely armed with 12.7 mm DShk, if at all (it concerns all countries). Standard armament was only one 7.62mm SGMT (precisely saying, AAMG variant was named SGMB). According to http://www.militaryvehicles.cz/index...=03-02&lang=en they were used quite shortly and were quickly replaced with OT-65 (12/69 would be good ending date IMO, now its 96). It was named just "BRDM", without "1".

#53 BRDM-2 - pages http://www.militaryvehicles.cz/index2_en.php , http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/...zkumne-vozidlo and http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/23028 mention only special chemical reconnaissance version BRDM-2rch used in CS (armed with one 7.62 PKT, used from 1975). There are no photos of ordinary BRDM-2 in CS service either.

#54 OT-62 - could be named OT-62 TOPAS (although it was a commercial name). Armament was 7.62mm vz.59 AAMG in turret. Speed should be 19-20 (58-60 km/h, now 18). According to Bronekollektsya book on PT-76 tank and a mention on the page below, serial production started in 1963 only (now: 1/62). According to http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/13336 , last was withdrawn in 1994 (now it's 12/96). No formation change.

#55 OT-64C SKOT - according to a Czech book on Skots, proper name of armed variant was OT-64 SKOT-2A or OT-64 2A. Removed until 2004, except for foreign missions, but they seem to use unarmed variants (now: until 110).

#56 OT-62D - it is OT-62 in fact (OT-62D was a variant with more powerful vz.59 RCL mounted upon a deck - see http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/38473 ). I suggest name "OT-62 /T21" (T21 is a symbol of Tarasnice). First date 1963, last 1994, machine gun was 7.62mm vz.59 AAMG, crew was 3, speed should be 19-20 (see #54).

Proposed unit: tank destroyer OT-62D with #153 82mm M59 RCL, vz.59 AAMG and #158 Tarasnice (see photos on a page quoted above). Used probably in 1964-94. Ammo - like unit #377 ?...

#57 BTR-50PK - used until 1966 at least (now 12/62) (http://www.militaryvehicles.cz/index...=02-04&lang=en ) 1959 seems correct ("from the end of 1950s")

#58 OT-65 FUG - no precise first date, but according to http://www.militaryvehicles.cz/index...=03-01&lang=en it was presented to public in 5/65 (now it's 1/66). Used until mid-90s (now: 120). It carried no fixed armament - basic variant is only sometimes seen with crew's LMG on bipod.

Proposed unit: there MUST be added OT-65A Vydra - like #58 OT-65 FUG, but armed with 82 mm recoilless rifle #158 and 7.62mm vz.59 AAMG. Icon could be 2334. Crew 4. http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/...zidlo/p/252669 I don't now a starting date, but there is a photo from 1969. Maybe some 1967?

Proposed unit: DPP OT-65M - FO vehicle - like #58 OT-65 FUG, armed with 7.62mm vz.59 AAMG. Crew 5. http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/84054

#60 9K33M3 Osa-AKM - 9K33M Osa-AKM was introduced in 1984 (now: 1/86) (http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/6071 and http://toulky.vojenstvi.cz/foto_index.php?fid=554 ) (I haven't found info on "9K33M3" in CS service)

#62 BTR-50P - no signs of service of open-topped BTR-50P in CS (http://www.militaryvehicles.cz/index...=02-04&lang=en and http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_30.htm no.444). To be removed IMO. Formations 220,222 should be changed according to earliest and leading unit #57 - or there should be created earlier Bren Carrier.

#64 BVP-1 - standard load for all countries were 4 missiles (only theoretically there could be the 5th carried always on launcher). According to http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_61.htm (no.907), the first regiments were armed with BVP-1 in 1974. It would need changes to some formations. By the way, only in 1974 the Soviets introduced HE ammo for BMP-1.

#65 BVP-2 - according to http://forum.valka.cz/viewtopic.php/t/10482 and http://vojenstvi.cz/vasedotazy_36.htm (no531) introduced in 1983 (now it's 1/80).

#66 OT-90 - should have turret armor like BRDM-2 (2/1/1). There should be added modernized variant OT-90M2, replacing OT-90 from 1/95, with armor 4/3/2. According to photos and drawings, they have no SD.

Next to come.