Communions question

[bbz]

Hello, I have been trying to figure out the mysteries of communions lately, and as with every mystery you need to start from the basics. I read a guide by Baalz on the topic but something is bothering me. In the guide it is said that:

"Slaves boost the power of both slaves and masters inside the communion by 1 per power of 2. This means +1 at 2 slaves, +2 at 4, +3 at 8"

So i decided to try that. I used four S1 casters set on "communion slave, soul slay X 4" and 1 S2 communion master set on "communion master, enslave mind X4 "
By the statement above the communion slaves should get a boost to their astral level so that they should become S3, in reality though they didn't (in my tests)
so they were unable to cast soul slay.

So how is actually the magic level boosted for the communion slaves?

One possible explanation is they are boosted only for the fatigue calculations of the spell the master casts, but not for the actual casting process.


Edit: Hmm its me not reading properly again: "Note, the communion bonus does not affect slaves casting by themselves, only the buffs the masters cast help. Apparently the slaves are acting by themselves outside the communion."

[Deathjester]

What you did should work, and has worked many times for me.

Could it be that the casting order is wrong? The master needs to act after the slaves, as the slaves can not cast spells if the master has already done so that turn.

That's the only explanation I can come up with.

Also, see this for reference from I assume the same guide:

"Reverse communion - 2 or 3 masters then as many cheap slaves as you can muster. Your masters will cast power of the spheres then whatever other booster is appropriate (phoenix power, etc). For air spells you can use the third master to cast storm so that air power is an option. Now, all your slaves have been boosted 2 levels, so they can cast fun things like falling fire, thunderstrike, etc. Even lowly S1 mages are now capable of Soul Slaying. The fun thing about this one is it's a great way to use all those cheap researchers you've got with no other preparation. Leading a fight with three rounds of 10X Falling Fires makes quite a difference considering how cheap the mages are. Note, this communion takes advantage of one of the quirks of the communion, the fact that slaves can cast spells so long as they act sequentially before all masters in the turn sequence. Commanders resolve their orders in the same order that they're listed in the strategic screen. If for whatever reason you're not comfortable trying to get this order right you can have the masters retreat after casting the buffs - the buffs remain in effect. Note, the communion bonus does not affect slaves casting by themselves, only the buffs the masters cast help. Apparently the slaves are acting by themselves outside the communion."

[bbz]

hmm its not wrong the master is last to cast, but the slaves start casting personal luck/luck/body ethereal instead of soul slay, I think as its said they don't get the extra astral levels if they want to cast a spell, while if the caster casts a spell they get fatigue for that spell as if they were S3 casters(even though they don't cast the spell themselves).
though if you have the master casting power of the sheres, and light of the northern star then they get to S3 and can start casting.

To Deathjester : Did you by any chance try that communion without the communion master casting power of the spheres and light of the northern star?

[Wrana]

Originally Posted by bbz

To Deathjester : Did you by any chance try that communion without the communion master casting power of the spheres and light of the northern star?

He wouldn't, as without these spells slaves won't get any bonuses for casting as opposed to reducing fatigue.
In other words - communion was aimed to increase power of the master. Slaves were not initially supposed to cast (or do) anything. But one feature of the communion (probably related to fatigue sharing itself, but maybe no) is that slaves share effects of any "self" spells master casts. I.e., spells with range of 0. And slaves are found to be able to act if they act before master casts in this round. These 2, probably unplanned features, allowed for "linebacker" and "reverse" communions as described in Baalz' guide.
So, you were right in noting that communion per se doesn't increase slaves' power. But it allows master to increase it through spells. After master(s) do so, slaves may then be used as mass-casters. By the way, if masters stay in the field, but don't cast, slaves are able to act. One known good way to provide for this is to arm master(s) with x-bows or something and order them to fire.

[bbz]

Thanks for clearing that up for me

[Deathjester]

And for me. I'm sorry BBZ, I almost mislead you there. My apologies for sounding so sure while being so wrong..

It seems I have thought that it worked, and probably had enough levels for these spells, probably due to power of the spheres, yes.

This will interestingly enough change my whole battle setup in a coming battle..

[bbz]

Yea no problem I myself had to rearrange some stuff and was just making sure that it works the way I know it(and apparently it doesn't) ,but at least now we know what to do for the future