Night of the Long Knives?

[Kheldron]

You'll find some, if not all, details here : http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45498

The most relevant part imho is the breaking of the forum's own rules. Indeed, it's not a democracy here and everyone should know better than breaking the rules. I mean everyone. Including its moderators as their utmost reponsiblity is to ensure those rules are law, hard as steel.
You know what happens in real life when the police baffle the rights of a prisoner, as guilty as can be? He gets released because of it, regardless of his faults.

If Sombre was indeed that foul-mouthed, he rightly deserved a temporary ban...which he never got. As some have pointed in the above thread they couldn't have made more damage to the forum's integrity by breaking their own rules.

There are weeks that start with a sad, grey and rainy day and this is one of them.

[Quitti]

Indeed, this is not a democracy. No privately owned message board even should be. And while Sombre can be an *** at times, I don't think he deserves to be permabanned for what I've heard he's done - he's/he was a good member of the community who frequently contributed content (mods) to the one game that we share here.

But it's not mine to decide. I don't run and moderate this place, though I'd do it differently if I did.

[Jack_Trowell]

What, Sombre has been permabanned ?!

He's one of the best contributors to the modding scene, what has he done that would get such a harsh result ?

I could understand a temporary ban as a warning, but that ?

Is it possible to get some informations about what happened ?

[Foodstamp]

Edit: Eh actually I just read why he got banned.

[Maerlande]

Well, as the one of the biggest instigators of the spam and probably the biggest I find the permanent ban of Sombre to be a bizarre, arbitrary and poorly considered move on the part of the moderation team.

Here's my view on the issue. This board is here to help sell games and make shrapnel money. Pure and simple. This section, Dominions 3, is here to sell the game Dominions 3.

This is a fine goal and suitable for a corporation or any business. I would do exactly the same if it was my game.

People like Sombre help sell this game for Shrapnel. Just like I do. How do we do that? Sombre does massive amounts of free work building mods that freshen the game and keep it interesting long after it's normal shelf life is over. Modding communities keep games going.

I work very hard to support, guide, and coach new players. I help with the wiki. I spend hours daily coaching new players on IRC. I sponsor games for new players. Players new to these boards PM me for help who don't even know me. Does this help Shrapnel? Of course it does.

Shrapnel needs to maintain some order on this forum. They own it and have the right to control it. It's thiers. They have a set of rules. But IF you publish rules you better follow them. Otherwise you just end up looking like arbitrary poofters. If you don't want to follow your own rules, don't post them. Just act in an opaque manner so no one knows where they stand.

I've been banned. It was short but fair. I lost my temper and was excessively rude to another player. So I learned. I'm not stupid. I love this place and the friends I've made here and Sombre is one of the best of them.

I also push the boundaries of the rules a lot. I love making funny posts. I also like teasing people about their fixations. Will I get more bannings? Hopefully not. Will I get more warnings or infractions? Probably. Does this mean I am not adding to the monetary value of this forum? No it does not. I add value.

Shrapnel: I don't have very much money so I don't spend a lot of money in your store. But I do buy your games. I am your customer. Listen to me. Sombre belongs here. He's a huge part of this community and permanently banning him is bad business. If we can't convince you just based on the morals and rights of the situation, stick with the business logic. Sombre is good for business.

Regards,
Maer

[Squirrelloid]

For what its worth, Sombre has been totally forthright about his end of the situation via IRC, including direct quotations of PMs. So protecting Sombre's privacy seems to be a moot point.

I'm not sure moderators or administrators should be able to claim privacy for decisions made in an official capacity, since those decisions should be open to scrutiny.

No assumptions have been made as to the sequence of events by those of us who talked to Sombre - we got them right from the horse's mouth as it were. The only thing uncertain is what the people on the administrative end were thinking at each step of the process. If those details aren't going to be shared then I think people are rightfully upset because a permanent ban seems to be without just cause from the evidence available, based on the forum's own rules. And while Sombre's stature as one of the primary contributors of new content makes us care quite a bit more than if he were some wet-behind-the-ears poster, the lack of sufficient apparent cause should be worrying regardless of who it is.

Based on the events as they are known to me, should I have been acting in an administrative capacity, I might have temp banned him. I probably wouldn't even have done that. The initial penalty seems to have covered the only real offense he committed. His lack of concern over what amounts to a slap on the wrist from a forum that is at best related to an elective luxury activity should be somewhat expected -- if that lack of concern led to more disruptive behavior than that behavior should have been punished as appropriate. Punishing thoughtcrime seems a bit Orwellian even for a 'privately-owned forum'.

[Annette]

Maer,

I greatly appreciate your productive post. You are correct - while these forums are not a profit center for Shrapnel Games, they do exist as a sales tool. Two very important components of the tool are our customers who contribute valuable content and our moderators who volunteer their time to help us maintain a peaceful, productive environment. Without their unpaid help, Shrapnel Games would have a difficult time keeping these forums open for our customers' use.

We all understand that tempers will flare and posts will be made that violate the rules we've put in place. And we appreciate cooperation when a moderator must step in to calm things down. The problem in this situation, and the reason I exercised our right to escalate beyond our infraction system, is that Sombre indicated to us that he did not intend to honor our requests to follow the standards we expect of all our users and that he would ignore future private messages asking him to refrain from using personal attacks. Would a temporary ban change his mind? So we're faced with the question, do we allow one user to post in a manner that we would not tolerate from anyone else?

[Soyweiser]

Originally Posted by Annette

Maer,

I greatly appreciate your productive post. You are correct - while these forums are not a profit center for Shrapnel Games, they do exist as a sales tool. Two very important components of the tool are our customers who contribute valuable content and our moderators who volunteer their time to help us maintain a peaceful, productive environment. Without their unpaid help, Shrapnel Games would have a difficult time keeping these forums open for our customers' use.

We all understand that tempers will flare and posts will be made that violate the rules we've put in place. And we appreciate cooperation when a moderator must step in to calm things down. The problem in this situation, and the reason I exercised our right to escalate beyond our infraction system, is that Sombre indicated to us that he did not intend to honor our requests to follow the standards we expect of all our users and that he would ignore future private messages asking him to refrain from using personal attacks. Would a temporary ban change his mind? So we're faced with the question, do we allow one user to post in a manner that we would not tolerate from anyone else?

But why not follow your own set of rules? Just let him ignore the rules. Get banned 3 times -> permaban. Just ignore that he doesn't care. Follow your own set of guidelines.

Now he was permabanned for saying he didn't care. And a huge ****storm went down on the forum.

[Maerlande]

Originally Posted by Annette

Maer,

I greatly appreciate your productive post. You are correct - while these forums are not a profit center for Shrapnel Games, they do exist as a sales tool. Two very important components of the tool are our customers who contribute valuable content and our moderators who volunteer their time to help us maintain a peaceful, productive environment. Without their unpaid help, Shrapnel Games would have a difficult time keeping these forums open for our customers' use.

We all understand that tempers will flare and posts will be made that violate the rules we've put in place. And we appreciate cooperation when a moderator must step in to calm things down. The problem in this situation, and the reason I exercised our right to escalate beyond our infraction system, is that Sombre indicated to us that he did not intend to honor our requests to follow the standards we expect of all our users and that he would ignore future private messages asking him to refrain from using personal attacks. Would a temporary ban change his mind? So we're faced with the question, do we allow one user to post in a manner that we would not tolerate from anyone else?

Well Annette. I think your posted policy of 2 temporary bans leading to a permanent ban would have been quite sufficient in this case. Put Sombre on probation. If he doesn't want to then follow the rules you've got a much stronger case. If the plan was to reduce disruption by removing a disruptive influence it failed miserably. Sombre's level of disruption is rarely that bad. Besides, a bit of disruption provides drama and keeps excitement going.

Unless I'm mistaken I didn't suggest that Sombre get off without consequence. But this decision to permanently ban him is extreme and I strongly believe it failed to serve your purposes. It also clearly pissed me off a lot. If you permanently banned me for the same infraction I'd work very hard to move all my friends and games over to Something Awful or some other dominions 3 environment. But I prefer to stay here.

When I acted in much the same manner as Sombre, you gave me a temporary ban. And honestly, when I go on a terror run here I make a much bigger mess than Sombre. Look at last night. The only difference appears to be I didn't tell you that I won't follow the rules in the future. But my offence was significantly greater than Sombre's. I got a polite warning this morning and replied positively. I stopped spamming.

Should you make a special case for certain members of this community? Why not? You have all the power and can rewrite the rules as required. You own these boards. The question is really why make a special case for Sombre. Because he's important to this community. Besides, you made a special case already. You immediately permanently banned him for what could very well be just a fit of anger.

[WraithLord]

( Just learned about this whole episode from this thread and the link that was given. )

I couldn't have phrased my opinion any better than Baalz said it.
I've just this tiny bit to add -
I do like the forum's overall tone to be as polite and constructive is it's generally is and I appreciate both the mods. efforts to that end and the natural good will of most players to keep it that way.
I think permanent ban should only be applied in extreme cases and according to the forum’s stated 3-strikes-and-you’re-out-rule. Extreme cases in my dictionary are, cheating, advocating for piracy, spamming, consistently stalking other player/s etc.
This doesn’t seem to be the case here.
I would like to humbly ask that Sombre’s sentence be sweetened. Please temp ban him as per the forum rules. Consider this, if you will, an act in favor of the community.
We would think no less of you, on the contrary we will appreciate and respect you more for that!