Scenario: NaV II, MP game or Scenario

[Septimius Severus]

Was wondering whether anyone knew at what point an MP game becomes a "Scenario", as in the case with NaV II:

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showthread.php?t=45227

http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showp...31&postcount=2

Is a scenario just a custom made map with certain special features, encounters, provinces, etc added to the .map file or can scenarios be MP games, with many of these elements present, such as custom pretenders, specially set up provinces, certain victory conditions, custom themes, pretender choices, a storyline, etc?

Thanks.

[Sombre]

So you just want to know what the community definition of a scenario is,.. or?

[Septimius Severus]

Originally Posted by Sombre

So you just want to know what the community definition of a scenario is,.. or?

Correct (though might be nice to know the developers exact definition of a scenario), does a scenario have to involve a scratch made custom map or can a scenario use a random map or other sort of map? If the latter what MP games or elements of such games makes them "scenarios", specific era, customized and hand placed AIs and indies, specstarts, non-traditional setup options, themes, etc. Looking at the included scenario, other than the #scenario tag, doesn't look much different from any other .map file that has been modified. Don't want to violate any forum rules by calling a game a scenario or posting "scenario" threads in the wrong forum.

[Sombre]

Well since scenarios, maps and mods all share a forum,... I don't get it.

It seems to me like you just want to draw attention to the two threads above : /

[Septimius Severus]

Well the thread I linked to is posted in the Multiplayer and AAR subforum not in the Scenarios, Maps and Mods subforum. So was sort of wondering if was appropriate to post it there as a scenario, hence my questions relating to the line between an MP game and a scenario and what constitutes a scenario. Thanks for the response though.

[Fantomen]

As far as I'm concerned a scenario is a map that has a fixed storyline with pre-designed gods and fixed nations and alliances. And some kind of unique thematic victory condition. Preferably there would be an intrigue unfolding during gameplay.

To it seems that Dom3 doesn't really support what I would call a "scenario" or "campaign" which I accossiate mostly with single player.

I guess that roleplayed multiplayer games like the one you mention could fill the gap to a degree. But who cares what words we use, call it what you will.

Edit: But no, I don't think you should post such games it in this forum. They very clearly belong in the multiplayer section, and only there.

[Sombre]

Originally Posted by Septimius Severus

Well the thread I linked to is posted in the Multiplayer and AAR subforum not in the Scenarios, Maps and Mods subforum. So was sort of wondering if was appropriate to post it there as a scenario, hence my questions relating to the line between an MP game and a scenario and what constitutes a scenario. Thanks for the response though.

Well is it a MP game? If it is, it belongs in the MP forum.

Also if you were really concerned about posting in the right place, I doubt you'd have effectively posted it in both forums.

Anyway a scenario is just a map and or mod file where the course of the game resulting is heavily influenced by the map maker, in whatever direction. This could be preplaced sites, premade sides etc etc. But you know all this already.

[13lackGu4rd]

a Scenario would be a map with special features, such as a story line, programmed in game events, fixed nations and starting locations, unique victory conditions, etc.

also for it to belong in this part of the forums- Scenarios, Maps and Mods, it needs to be a *downloadable* file with your Scenario map. advertising for a *game* here is just wrong, it belongs where you first posted it- the multiplayer area...

[Gandalf Parker]

It doesnt have to be just a map. Dom3 has lots of "just maps" and "just mods" and "just game settings" that you can dive into. But when you extend them with story and more challenge and some flair then thats what games consider a Scenario or a Campaign.

I think the NaV games are a great example of going beyond the usual king-of-the-hill games. As for appropriate? Im afraid that Im the reason there is scenario on this forum. But it was an early recommendation before I realized it was so broken in Dom3. Later the Scenario tag was added as a way of limiting searches to appropriate results. I think the NaV game should be in the MP directory, and tagged MP. Im not sure that anyone who is looking for scenario will feel its correct to land on the NaV game. Particularly long after its over.

There are a few efforts at what I would consider scenario or campains but like I said its pretty broken IMHO. It doesnt even work as well as it did in Dom2. Id like to see more of them but many of the needed components only work if done manually from a server so its more of a way to run an MP game than it is a downloadable thing you can run thru yourself.

[Septimius Severus]

Thanks Blackguard and Gandalf. Yes, I can understand why some might say NaV II does qualify or seems more scenario like than most of your run of mill MP games what with custom AI pretenders, magic items, starting troops, pre-placed units, hand placed magic sites, pre-made teams and specstarts, specially modified provinces, a storyline and themes, thematic pretender choices, a human played mercenary nation, "The Gimp", etc. NaV II seems to have all the makings of one and all the flavor of MP and SP combined. Yes, Gandalf, I agree. NaV seems to have it all.

But many MP games now make use of mods and/or a modified .map (which is really what makes a scenario a "scenario", the image file is just a graphic). So they can't all be scenarios.

Wasn't really advertising it here (it is posted and advertised in the MP forum) although if it does qualify as a scenario it probably would not have been improper to have done so. Just had that question and didn't want to break any rules using the scenario thread tag in the MP forum where the game is posted.

NaV II does seem to be both an MP game and a "scenario", but might be best as Gandalf says to tag it as MP at least before the game ends otherwise I'd need to post the .map file after the game is over so others could use it. Thanks for your help dudes.