Oob 87 - Bulgaria

[CarpathianDragon]

I was just browsing through the OOBs and came across what I believe is a mistake.

The unit in question is Bulgaria's T-72M2.

Now, web results are quite thin on this vehicle,but I managed to get the following :

- Thermal Vision
- Extra Armor
- C4I
- Various other improvements (anti-IR coating,improved NBC defences,improved skirts,etc)

The in-game Unit 17 T-72M2 is consistent with these changes save one : the 125mm 03 Gun.

This gives the T-72M2's APCR a penetration of 80+. This seems a bit too high.

As far as I can tell, the "03" designation and others similar signify "YYYY-era rounds".

I am certainly no expert, but Bulgaria having basically DU APCR ammo... just doesn't seem right.

Can anybody help clear this up?

Personally I think this is a mistake and the gun should be the same as for T-72M1 (Unit 16). I am unaware of Bulgaria fielding new sabot rounds.

[CarpathianDragon]

2S3 Akatsya. This unit's availability is set 2020, however it seems that they are no longer in Bulgarian service.

This site cites none in service,citing the Military Balance 2004-2005 by IISS.

http://www.csees.net/?page=country_s...try_id=3&sec=8

There's little in the way of sources that state exactly when the 2S3s were retired from service. The only sure thing is that they are retired.

I recommend setting the end date to 2004.

If anybody can provide a definitive sourced end date,they are welcome of course.

[CarpathianDragon]

Unit 284 : Panzerfaust 3.

There don't seem to be any German Panzerfaust 3 RPGs in Bulgarian service. Must be a fictional "what if" entry left behind.

Unit 287 : Milan III

Same story, no Milans in Bulgarian service. Assume obsolete "what if" entry.

Unit 399/400 : MiG-23

In-game end date of 2020 is obsolete.

The MiG-23s were withdrawn from Bulgarian service in 2003 with the closure of Dobroslavtsi airbase.


Unit 403/409 : Su-22

In-game end date of 2020 is obsolete.

Were withdrawn from combat service in 2001. Initially based at Dobrich airbase, moved to Bezmer airbase before suqadrons were dissolved. Kept in recon role until 2004.

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

Don't know if this helps but, here's a table from the below source. Note the top of the table shows T-72S and other variants and also in the bottom 1/4 of the table it shows the ammo types and seems to indicate the Russians might have had a BM-42M round with a DU penetrator as again the table deals with export T-72 variants as well (But I believe all variants are now available for export now, but not sure.). This round is also shown for the T-80U as well from this source.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...t-72-specs.htm and http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ussia/t-72.htm

Regards,
Pat

[DRG]

ALL the units in all the nations using the 125mm gun have been redone already.

If want to discuss problems with Bulgaia start ONE thread and stick with it. We don't need three

Don

[DRG]

Originally Posted by FASTBOAT TOUGH

it shows the ammo types and seems to indicate the Russians might have had a BM-42M round with a DU penetrator

This entry in globalsecurity appears to be somewhat behind the times. The Russians most certainly have DU APFSDS penetrators

BM-29(1982), BM-32(1985) and BM-46(1991) are all DU rounds

Don

[DRG]

RE

Unit 284 : Panzerfaust 3.

There don't seem to be any German Panzerfaust 3 RPGs in Bulgarian service. Must be a fictional "what if" entry left behind.

Unit 287 : Milan III

Same story, no Milans in Bulgarian service. Assume obsolete "what if" entry.

I appreciate the information but a back up source would be nice. Anybody can say anything. That's why Wikipedia cannot be trusted. There are written procedures for reporting errors in the sticky section. Please read them

Don

[CarpathianDragon]

Ech... negative proof.

I've scoured the net for relevant sources. "Panzerfaust 3" "Bulgaria", even in Bulgarian,came up empty.

But I would come up equally empty if asked to prove that AH-1s aren't in service with Hungary, or F-22s not in service with Romania.

My point is that whoever requested the inclusion of the Panzerfaust 3 and MILAN for Bulgaria should also be able to provide sources for that. Maybe this is a legacy of the "Wikipedia days" when OOB changes were easily accepted,I wouldn't know.

I can only offer my good faith, however much it trickles through a PC screen. I simply have found no evidence Bulgaria fields the Panzerfaust 3 or MILAN.

This is a community after all,maybe somebody can find a well-hidden but reliable source.

P.S. : Apologize for the thread barrage.

[DRG]

Those weapons and units were included before 2002 obviously on speculation. You must remember that whatever info is available now there was at least half as much then and with the talk about Bulgaria joining NATO it does indeed look like someone took that a bit too far

I had a long list of Bulgarian equipment and weapons that are currently in service and possible new weapons that I had included in my to-do list then removed it and saved it somewhere but I cannot find it anywhere and I fear it's been deleted in error. It came from a non english discussion forum that I stumbled onto while looking up something totally unrelated


Don

[FASTBOAT TOUGH]

It was tough to find what I did, it seems countries like Bulgaria of the former Soviet Bloc (with some exceptions Poland for one.), it's hard to find anything country specific without being referred back to the former Soviet Union equipment. One site I found did seem pretty specific about what equipment they have across the board (armyrecognition.com a French site.) but not ammo Bulgaria is using for their tanks for instance. But the web is only as good as the country your in, I could be wrong and that's fine but my "google" search I believe on a topic might not turn up all the same results as someone doing the same search from another part of the world. If I'm right on this assumption(?) as I've been told, it can be very frustrating for Forums like this that's so technically specific. All we can do is march on, do the best we can and enjoy the game and for I think some of you be glad it's not for real anymore. Anyone for some baseball? Going to see some spring ball over the next few days-Lets Go Mets!! Have a good night and a better week everyone!!
Regards,
Pat