Yugoslav OOB

[Wolf_Warrior]

Originally Posted by PlasmaKrab

Some interesting stuff you have here.
Mind if I use some of the LBMs in my mod? I have around 150 Yugoslav/Serbian/Croatian pictures included now that I have added the Yugoslav OOBs, but you have some pics here (particularly infantry) that I never found on the Internets.
Actually, if you can direct me to the original photos, that would be fine as well.
If you're interested , I'll post some camoed M-80 icons soon, provided I can get my data back from my second USB stick crash in one month

No problem, use them as you wish . We both have the same goal of improving the game

For the original pictures, i got them here:
Yugoslav Peoples Army

and here (but you need a face book account):
http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/p...1207533&ref=ts

Can you tell me a bit more about the mod you are making?

[Jaakko]

I noticed that the Yugoslav OOB T-72/M-84s have less pen (sabot43/heat50) than the same tanks in the Croat and Bosnian OOB (64/65), that the Yugoslav T-55 have one point more pen (ap22) than the Croat and Bosnian T-55 (21), and that the Croat and Bosnian T-34/85 have better gun than the Yugoslav one. I ask, are these all mistakes?

I copied the updated T-34 to Yugoslav OOB and added .50 M2 AAMGs to the early 90's T-34s of all three mentioned OOBs, as was more than common according to real war footage.

[Marcello]

Originally Posted by Jaakko

I noticed that the Yugoslav OOB T-72/M-84s have less pen (sabot43/heat50) than the same tanks in the Croat and Bosnian OOB (64/65), that the Yugoslav T-55 have one point more pen (ap22) than the Croat and Bosnian T-55 (21), and that the Croat and Bosnian T-34/85 have better gun than the Yugoslav one. I ask, are these all mistakes?

Not likely. The armor penetration values for the 100mm and 125mm tank guns have been revised for the last patch.
For example the BR-412D value for the 100mm has changed from 21 to 22 while 125mm penetration has generally been reduced on the basis of the type of rounds which were actually exported outside the USSR.
I guess these changes however have not been applied across the board, due to the enormous number of units involved and lack of time.

[Jaakko]

I see. So I'll use the Yugoslav OOB as the standard for modifying the Croat and Bosnian OOBs.

[Wolf_Warrior]

Hm... interesting.
I will research this a bit. A logical explanation to me would be that the Yugoslav M-84 are using older models of ammunition, or something like that, i don't know really. I haven't changed the stats of those tanks, so i will make a little bit research on what kind of ammo they used, and so on.

[DRG]

If you look closely you will see the Yugo verions have start dates BEFORE the ammo the Croatian and Bosnian carry. If I put 1988 issued ammo in a tank with a start date 5 years before that would be and error people would also complain about....yes ?

A case could be made for an ammo upgrade to the Yugo versions if you can show me they had/have access to BM-42 and BK-27 or that the Croats and Bosnians don't have those rounds

Don

[Wolf_Warrior]

Well, the most reasonable solution i could think of is:

Yugoslavia produced its own ammo, and the Croatians and Bosnians most likely did not buy any new ammo for their tanks. They used the ones from captured Yugoslav barracks (See Battle of the Barracks) now, what kind of ammo Yugoslavia used, i don't know, but it surely was very similar to the Soviet, although which of those was better is questionable. It is possible that YU didn't exactly copy the soviet ammo, they were more prone to produce modified versions of soviet technology. (Just like the M-84 isn't an exact copy of the T-72, but a slightly improved one due to later introduction than the T-72, when new technologies were available)

[Marcello]

Yugoslavia made M-88, which was a BM-15 copy with redesigned ballistic cap for improved performance against sloped armor against which the basic BM-15 suffered somewhat, otherwise pretty much same as BM-15 (they can use the same values for game purposes).
Not 100% sure on HEAT but it was probably a BK-14M copy too, I will try to check.
As I said elsewhere BM-15/BK-14M combo can be used as default, at least for the 1990's and 2000's, as they were the best which the USSR exported before the end of the Cold War and they were copied/licensed as well (older rounds such as BM-9 were likely expended for training in that timeframe).
Better rounds have been available since then but they are more expensive and not everyone can or want spend the money.

[DRG]

If they indeed issue a BM-15/BK-14M combo then there will be modifications made for the next release to show that as right now the HEAT pen values are for BK-18, which, at the time, was thought to be the HEAT round most likly used. If the Croatians and Bosnians are using the same thing then their ammo will be downgraded as well ( currently they are set up with BM-42 and BK-27 )

Don

[Wolf_Warrior]

Originally Posted by DRG

If they indeed issue a BM-15/BK-14M combo then there will be modifications made for the next release to show that as right now the HEAT pen values are for BK-18, which, at the time, was thought to be the HEAT round most likly used. If the Croatians and Bosnians are using the same thing then their ammo will be downgraded as well ( currently they are set up with BM-42 and BK-27 )

Don

For Croatia its almost 100% sure they used BM-15/BK-14M combo in 1991 till somewhere 1996, but i think they are using more modern ammo this days. Im not sure, but i think that the M-84A4 "Sniper" variant uses a more modern ammo. I will look further into this.