Help on controlling the AI please - Page 2

Imp · #1 April 13th, 2009, 11:45 AM

Forget the idea of following with APCs managed to do once somehow they just pick them up only way would be to modify load capacity or have passengers onboard.

Suhiir · #2 April 13th, 2009, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

Right now I am a happy bunny a couple of things first 2 I am pretty sure are a no but i might have missed something.

1) Is there anyway to just delete the last waypoint not the whole string

2) Can you force vehicles to unload would be usefull if they actually dropped off passengers in cover rather than waiting till in a fire fight.
Dropping off ATGMs MANPADS at a sensible distance would be handy to going for a play.

1) Not that I'm aware of, believe me I've tried everything I could think of. You have to clear all the waypoints for the unit and start over.

2) Another thing I'd love to be able to do but can't. Best I've managed is to have the AI move vehicles to a given point then add the passengers to the game as a reinforcement. This of course has several problems A) No passenger losses if vehicles are destroyed in-route B) If the AI decides to path oddly the passengers may not appear where the vehicles are.

Imp · #3 April 13th, 2009, 06:53 PM

I am not sure here at all but if you slow the APCs to a crawl i think the infantry might get out if walkings as fast.

Dont think the game was really designed for this I still get very hit & miss & having a couple of logic toggles you could place would have helped no end.
Plot path with waypoints putting logic markers where you like.
A) Load unload passengers
B) Drive at speed rather than trying to control with waypoints.
C) If enemy visible stop use path 2 etc.
Couple of global ones to handy for raids & ambushes like once enemy is seen start routines from that turn saving you trying to guess where the player will be.
This really is where the program shows its age/limitations considering lack of options AI does surprisingly well sometimes.

Double_Deuce · #4 April 13th, 2009, 07:47 PM

Setting the waypoints, and getting them to work the way I want them to is, IMHO, the hardest part of scenario design. The OOB's, maps and storyline come to mind fairly easy, its getting the units to move and defend how I want them to that is the challenge, at least for me.

hoplitis · #5 April 14th, 2009, 12:17 AM

DD,
I've done alot of experiments with waypoints after Pyros's analysis was included in the official manual, reading some of his posts in this forum and lurking in the backround during the making of the ANZAC campaign. There are a lot of things you can do with waypoints, Pyros insisted on that and he was probably right. I need some time to gather the material and formulate it in a readable manner. I think scenario designers would find it interesting, at least and hopefully useful.
...actually I was a bit disappointed because I thought that people were not interestd on the subject any more!

Imp · #6 April 16th, 2009, 04:58 PM

Hi Suhiir thanks for answering going out so just a brief note

Originally Posted by Imp

Quote:

4)ANY change to the formation structure of either side of a scenario WILL CANCEL ALL waypoints for both sides so waypoints must be the very last thing that is done. A change to even one unit of either side cancels ALL waypoints

I am a novice but this seems wrong waypoints must be the last thing set on that side but you can buy & cross attach or even reassign units in the other side without adverse effects on waypoints set for the other.
Hence the "trick" of buying them after you have checked AI side is moving as you want by playing with them set to human & computer control.

Quote:

Wrong or not it's the way the AI works.
And believe me, being a former programmer myself I have a clue how difficult any AI is to create in the first place and ANY attempt to modify it WILL lead to unexpected results. So Andy and Don will no doubt be wise and not even consider trying to modify it unless something something is outright broken, and it isn't.

I was not refering to wrong as needs fixing or asking for but was refering to the fact if you buy forces for the player side after setting waypoints they do not disappear.
Have not checked if it upsets them somehow but in this post by Pyros its what he says to do
http://forum.shrapnelgames.com/showt...134#post422134

Therefore one of them must be wrong it either effects the waypoints in which case this post is wrong or vica versa

Suhiir · #7 April 16th, 2009, 07:23 PM

Believe me Pyros knows what he's talking about.

I don't know why (I have strong suspicion but can't say for certain), but sometimes if you buy new units it totally screws up the waypoints.
Sometimes it doesn't.
To be on the safe side it's best to buy and make any formation alterations before you start trying to work on pathing via waypoints.

Again, just one of those "how it works" things.

Imp · #8 April 16th, 2009, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Believe me Pyros knows what he's talking about.

I don't know why (I have strong suspicion but can't say for certain), but sometimes if you buy new units it totally screws up the waypoints.
Sometimes it doesn't.
To be on the safe side it's best to buy and make any formation alterations before you start trying to work on pathing via waypoints.

Again, just one of those "how it works" things.

I am sure he does but the 2 still conflict Pyros suggests plotting the waypoints before buying the other side (point 1 in the link of my previos post). The Guide states messing with either side will mess them up which is right.

Imp · #9 April 17th, 2009, 12:13 AM

Suhiir I am going to be busy for next couple of days but will look properly at what you posted then. Is it allright if I PM or email you about to discuss further as feel probably best if just post findings.

A couple of things reaction 99 as I said i think is special but no one has said.
Reaction 98 is to I think that fixes a unit in place.
Another conflict I have found Pyros states in document guide links to right at start that Reaction MUST be set to zero to work properly. I extracted one of his campaigns & a quick look shows most are set to reaction of 1 some 99s & others so this does not match the stated advice.

Suhiir · #10 April 17th, 2009, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Imp

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suhiir

Believe me Pyros knows what he's talking about.

I don't know why (I have strong suspicion but can't say for certain), but sometimes if you buy new units it totally screws up the waypoints.
Sometimes it doesn't.
To be on the safe side it's best to buy and make any formation alterations before you start trying to work on pathing via waypoints.

Again, just one of those "how it works" things.

I am sure he does but the 2 still conflict Pyros suggests plotting the waypoints before buying the other side (point 1 in the link of my previos post). The Guide states messing with either side will mess them up which is right.

No, actually if you read what he wrote carefully he suggested TESTING waypoint plots before buying the other side.
It's an excellent way to watch how the AI moves formations.
After you finish using his method to test and tweak your waypoints then you buy both sides and plot the ones to be used in a scenario

I'd prefer to continue this with posts unless someone objects, I'm sure others have the same questions.
Also folks can jump in with suggestions or corrections as needed.

99 is the default reaction setting if you don't go in and alter it.
Setting react to 1 just insures the formation will attempt to move turn 1, thus follow the waypoints you set up for it.
If in fact setting it to 98 fixes a unit in place for the duration of a scenario IOU a kiss! This has long been one of my big headaches.