Battlefield spell + retreating?

[PvK]

Seems to me the issue is that the super-duper-powerful spells are so easy and cheap to cast, compared both to other options, and to what damage they can do to other strategies. These are currently balanced by research level, but that's a one-way barrier which costs nothing to maintain, which once passed, offers no barrier.

In other words, I'd increase the path requirements and gem costs of the spells that are superdeadly and obsolete other things. But that's just me - I prefer endless war to a rush to super-magic. And yes, another mod in that direction (in addition to my Price of Power mod linked below) is brewing in my arcane laboratory.

[Tifone]

I wouldn't like a Dispeller. IMHO it don't fit the mood of this particular game - huge national armies<<<<<spells and summons. A way to bring armies back from being obsolete, is not something I would.

This thread is starting to go pretty nowhere ^^ BEs, and Mist of Deception in particular, are not allowed with retreating in the last MP games I checked.
Here in this thread, many are saying that they are legit and a balancing issue with some other late game strong (and overused) strategies. So should they be allowed in MP games too? Talk, people

[K]

I've never seen them be a problem in MP. I've never heard of them being a problem in MP.

So raise you hands: how many games has anyone played where someone won the game because they could cast Mists of Deception or some other battlefield spell and then retreat?

I expect the answer is none. People tend to flip out over the theoretical rather than consider the practical.

[Twan]

K said:
I've never seen them be a problem in MP. I've never heard of them being a problem in MP.

So raise you hands: how many games has anyone played where someone won the game because they could cast Mists of Deception or some other battlefield spell and then retreat?

I expect the answer is none. People tend to flip out over the theoretical rather than consider the practical.

None because using MoD + retreat is forbidden in 90% of games and players restrain themselves in the 10% others, knowing using this spell is a sure way to see a flame war and get a bad reputation on the forums.

It's why the only cases reported are accidental (or pretended accidental) uses in newbie games.

Tifone said
This thread is starting to go pretty nowhere ^^ BEs, and Mist of Deception in particular, are not allowed with retreating in the last MP games I checked.

Usual rules are :
- offensive BEs and retreating *immediatly* isn't allowed.
- BEs and retreating after 5 rounds (as last order of the script) is.
- BEs + MoD combo never.
- MoD alone is not absolutely forbidden, but using it and winning the battle has 90% to horror mark the player and summon an horror thread here.

[K]

Twan said:

None because using MoD + retreat is forbidden in 90% of games and players restrain themselves in the 10% others, knowing using this spell is a sure way to see a flame war and get a bad reputation on the forums.

It's why the only cases reported are accidental (or pretended accidental) uses in newbie games.

I think that's just the hype talking. The actual effect on games is completely minimal, but enough people are crazy adamant about the issue that other people capitulate because they want to find a game to play.

A year ago there were no games that had rules against battlefield spells or MoD, and giant games like the first Big Game with all nations ran perfectly fine without those rules.

Casting the big spells is hard, especially if you try to cast a spell like MoD with its Air6 requirement. Even the best armies with ideal nation choices won't be able to cast these magics in any meaningful way. It only works well in:
-isolated battles...
-against armies without mages...
-who are run by players unwilling to spend gems on offensive rituals or battlefield magic or summons suited to your enemy's tactics.

Basically, these magics are for thug and SC killing, and since thugs and SCs are a sacred cow of a select group of veteran DomIII players, all the hate is focused on them. Considering the crazy things that happen in the endgame when people get 6-9s in paths, I don't even know why people bother nerfing these effects because they are far less game-altering than most globals or high-end summons.

Seriously. People don't win games with this tactic, so nerfing it is just changing the game balance to favor SCs and thugs AND removing tactical diversity and complexity.

[PvK]

I'm sure you're right, K. I'm not flipping out about any of it. Just saying I enjoy the option of modding different game balance, because I'm one of those players who enjoys the army combat and doesn't mind a "slow end game" especially because I like savoring long thematic single-player role-playing style games.