I HATE the allegiance subverter!!!! - Page 2

Dan · #11 April 4th, 2002, 05:25 PM

quote:
Originally posted by pathfinder:
Dumbluck: FM3---IIRC that is a fighter carried anti-ship missile from the "On Death Ground/Insurrection" series

That's right. The FRAM is a fighter launched anti-matter missile for use against ships, but it's shorter range means the fighter must enter the PD envelope to fire. The FM3 has longer range, allowing the launch to take place outside PD range. Fighter pilots agree this is a good thing.

Dan

Kynalvarus · #12 April 5th, 2002, 02:05 AM

quote:
Originally posted by LGM:

Better to have a disabled ship than a converted one!

So true.
IMHO there is always a counter-strategy. For weapons like the AS or the Mental Flailer (always works if it hits) the counter strategies I'd use would be pretty unorthodox.
(Full Disclosure: I'm a relative newcomer to SEIV. Free advice is free also of warranties.)

Alternative: Keep in mine that the effectiveness/success chance of Subverters decreases with range. Do not let them get to point blank range. Get them to waste their shot at long range. Remember, they only get to try once. I would recommend lots of small, hard to hit ships with as long of a direct fire weapon as possible or missles.

Absolutely. Small size for the defense bonus and the low ROI of using the one AS shot. Don't use your (best tech/tech he doesn't have), and let him capture lots of junky ships not worth their maintenance costs. Make them devoid of most of the normal equipment, e.g. SDD, Solar Sail, PDC, minesweeper, QR... Pile up a bunch & leave 'em mothballed until he warps in.

Converters do not work on units. Use Fighters/Carrier attack on them.

Plus fighters cost no maintenance, and you don't even need carriers if you're on defense.

You could also try rushing at them madly with Tachyon Projection Cannons and hope to take out the Subverters with your first volley.

If you're crazy like me, try this:
Rush him with the cheapos I described above, but give them Boarding Parties and Shield Depleters. He's trying to close with you - so put some large tractors in the mix, pull him in, and turn the tables - or at least force the self-destruct of his expensive AS ships with your cheapies. If he takes them away, well, they're no better at taking your Main Battle ships than what he's currently got, so what have you lost?

Ionic Dispersers could also be useful to keep them out of range by zapping their engines. These have a range of 6 at the upper levels which exceeds Subverters.

You hate AS? I hate ID! What an incredible weapon to stall superior enemy forces! One heavy IDV hit, or two large, and you've got an immobile useless hulk with 6 repair points to get back 60kt! If they don't have supplemental supply, then they're out of gas as well! I've annihilated equal tech AI fleets four times my fleet's size by catching them on warp-in with dedicated engine-destroyer ships, and even if you just slow them down, it's more time to build your defense.

Finally, try using Repulser beams to push them away. FYI: Repulser beams push objects more squares using larger mounts. If you can use a Huge Mount (Battleship) you can push them quite far (something like 12 squares). Repulsers are the bane of short range weapons.

A good idea, if you have larger hulls than they do.

Watch out for the fighter based weapons that Psychics own. It does something like 25 damage every turn!.

Yeah, and at range 3, too. Sure it's within PDC range, but not for as much of the overlapping fields of PDC.

A few more suggestions -
Be faster than them. Make them use engine-destroyers to get close - at least that way they have to repair their prizes before they're any use.
Use every defensive bonus you can get. Scattering/stealth armor, ECM, size, whatever. They get one AS shot, make them miss.
AS doesn't respect shields or armor, so don't use much mass on them. Remember that he's sacrificing 75kt/100kt for each large/heavy AS that only gets one shot, so his damage-weapon load is lowered. If his intent is capture then all the damage he does to his prosective prize is his to fix, so he has incentive to hold his fire anyway.
I haven't tried drones much yet, but they seem like a good reply to AS attacks - and how much good is the empty drone carrier to him if you fail?
Use mines, sats, and sabotage. Every one of these can be countered, but each one takes resources away from his building/maintaining more AS ships.

You may now mock my naivete. ;-)

I have a couple of questions, though, for those more experienced.

First, what do the damage numbers on the AS mean? Are they percent chances? Mind Damage points? Is there any way to make your ships harder to steal via AS? Does size or number of CQ/BParties/SStations matter?

Second, I know that ship/fleet experience affects offensive to hit % - does it improve defensive bonus as well? Psychics can easily train up every ship&fleet to 20%, so it behooves their opponents to study AMS and match them. It's even more important if it improves your direct-fire defense.

Third, is there a good way to control satellite deployment? They always seem to wind up in a single stack, and always in the wrong place to defend in inbound warp combat - not to mention that in planet assaults the enemy can just fly to the other side of the planet. I'd like to split them into 3-6 Groups and distribute evenly. I guess you could hold them in planet/sat-layer cargo and spit them out piecemeal, but fast-launch sat-layers have no cargo-cap and roomy ones have low launch-rate. Domed colonies already have too many demands on their cargo space. Can it be done with pre-launched sats?

Yes, this post is far too long. :-)

--Kynalvarus

pathfinder · #13 April 5th, 2002, 02:22 AM

Dumbluck: FM3---IIRC that is a fighter carried anti-ship missile from the "On Death Ground/Insurrection" series

Wardad · #14 April 5th, 2002, 02:41 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Dan:

The Master Computer is sort of a counter, but a weak one in my opinion. The Computer Virus weapon easily blows the MC to smithereens.

Both the Computer Virus and the AS should have a direct counter. Hopefully not a totally effective counter.

Boarding Parties are countered by Crew and Security Sations. So why not counter AS with Political Officer Quarter (I,II, and III)? The Computer virus could be countered with Anti-virus, Firewall and Reboot.

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Upgrades Happen!

Puke · #15 April 5th, 2002, 03:41 AM

regarding backup systems for the MC: i believe that the aux-control component can not be added unless you already have a MC or a bridge. an aux-control could be added that also contained life support and bridge functions, and this may keep a ship running that has had its MC fried. call it redundant systems, or failsafe, or whatever. also, a hardened MC with a higher damage resistance might be worthwhile.

just make sure that the highest level CV is able to defeat the strongest MC. perhaps if you added TWO hardened MCs, you would always survive a single CV hit. of course, there is the issue of multiple hits, but they do have a slow reload rate on the CV.

Gimboid · #16 April 5th, 2002, 04:47 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Kynalvarus:

Second, I know that ship/fleet experience affects offensive to hit % - does it improve defensive bonus as well? Psychics can easily train up every ship&fleet to 20%, so it behooves their opponents to study AMS and match them. It's even more important if it improves your direct-fire defense.

Yes, training does improve your offense and defensive bonuses (for direct fire weapons). A fully trained fleet vs one that is not, even with same tech levels on the ships is extremely devastating for the untrained player

PsychoTechFreak · #17 April 5th, 2002, 08:57 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Kynalvarus:

First, what do the damage numbers on the AS mean? Are they percent chances? Mind Damage points? Is there any way to make your ships harder to steal via AS? Does size or number of CQ/BParties/SStations matter?

See:

Virus and AS chances

Note: I mistakenly renamed the AS to AC, allegiance converter.

capnq · #18 April 5th, 2002, 11:10 PM

quote:
I haven't tried drones much yet, but they seem like a good reply to AS attacks - and how much good is the empty drone carrier to him if you fail?

I've got one solo game where drones have been my most effective defense against the Cue Kappa. An unexpected bonus was that the AI would direct fire at the incoming drones before the more distant defending ships and planet.

Baron Munchausen · #19 April 6th, 2002, 02:20 AM

quote:
Originally posted by Wardad:

Both the Computer Virus and the AS should have a direct counter. Hopefully not a totally effective counter.

Boarding Parties are countered by Crew and Security Sations. So why not counter AS with Political Officer Quarter (I,II, and III)? The Computer virus could be countered with Anti-virus, Firewall and Reboot.

The Allegience Subverter, despite the name, is not about persuading your crew to defect.

It's some sort of direct mental conVersion that no 'political officer' could intervene in. What would be required is a form of shielding against the effect.

BUT... you have reminded me of another old problem. There is no counter-agent for MUTINY (the 'Crew insurrection' intelligence operation) and their ought to be! I have requested many times that boarding parties be triggered to retake a ship when it mutinies. If we can't have that, then a 'political officer' or 'loyalty monitor' or whatever would be a good addition to our options. That, and let troops remain loyal and fight it out with a planetary population that tries to break away and the game becomes much more sane.

Solutions for the computer virus are more difficult. How about giving the MC 'emissive armor' ability? If and when the emissive armor ability is fixed, it will reduce the damage done per hit even when the total damage is greater than the emissive setting.

[ 06 April 2002: Message edited by: Baron Munchausen ]