Sliding scale province defense

[Saint_Dude]

A good number of the threads in this forum deal with the perceived unbalance of particular units (helherdlings, vans, neifels, elephants, etc.).

While these units, and a few others, are very effective, they tend to be more damaging in the early game. If one is rushed (in the first year or less) by a nation that can recruit these units, it is usually lights out. If you are able to buy some time and conduct some research, there are invariably counters that are available.

Rather than systematically nerfing all the potential rush nations / units, I am wondering if there is a way to bolster core national defenses to make it easier to defend against a rush.

Specifically, I am thinking about a modification of the existing province defense. What if the starting cost of province defense for any province (including the capital) started at 1 gp? I.E. you would still start with a province defense of 25 at your capital, but for 1 gold you could raise it to 26 (55 gold for capital def of 35, and 210 gold for capital def of 45).

Additionally, it would also be nice if base province defenses for the provinces in close proximity to ones capital started with some other value than 0. For example: provinces adjacent to the capital would start with def of 15, those 2 provs removed would start with def of 10, and those 3 provs removed would start with 5.

Combining these two effects together would make it possible to put together a much more robust defense in the early stages of the game. The effects would be negligible for assaults in the mid or late stages of the game, but they would definitely help against the early rush.

Just a thought. Would any of this be possible using the existing mod commands?

[PvK]

Hmm. I understand your premise. However I don't think extra PD would help particularly much if the problem is superior enemy units. Also I don't think those specific changes are mod-able. (With mods you can change what and how much PD creates, but not where that PD is, nor how the game charges for it.)

I guess one (complex) way to limit rushes would be to mod in very strong PD, and then change the mod during play as the game got more advanced. E.g., start with the mod giving hugely powerful PD, and every 10-20 turns tone it down until by turn 60 or so, it is back to normal.

You could give nations without "rush" unit types much larger starting armies (though that would make those nations more able to expand quickly). You could also give them some strong immobile starting units, or some starting units which offer a counter to rush units.

[Saint_Dude]

Well perhaps PD could simply be enhanced (more so for the non-rush nations)? More units and better units would help.

As it is PD works very well in SP, but is nearly useless in MP IMO. It is too expensive and too weak to fend off any of the rush nations in the early game. And it is simply too weak to fend off anything but scouts and black hawks in the later game (an exaggeration I know, but late or mid-game armies totally disregard PD).

A PD of 25 combined with a starting army for a non-rush nation is about equivalent to an indie 7 prov. I.e. a push over for a handful of elephants or rush-worthy sacreds. Even after several recruiting periods, most capitals are no tougher than indie 9 provs. From both a thematic perspective and from a gaming perspective, it would make more sense if nation capitals were much tougher nuts to crack in the early going. Perhaps capitals could start with a PD of 50?

[Saulot]

"Perhaps capitals could start with a PD of 50?"

I would definitely approve of this change. Capitals should be pretty tough. Any thoughts KO?

[CUnknown]

I disagree about starting PD being 50, but I agree that it should be selectable as an option, like playing with more or less resources and stuff.

[Theonlystd]

Well 50 pd would still be pretty worthless for some nations.


Off the top of my head Lanka and the non ebil apes Pd is pretty useless even for games vs the Ai

[MaxWilson]

The way I see it, capital PD is just free meat-shields to combine with your researchers. It's not supposed to be extremely tough (it's only worth about 250 gold), but it's useful for the librarians. I think I'm opposed to the idea of giving an initial 50 PD at capitals, in the base game. PD by itself should not be capable of fending off very many attacks. If you wanted to houserule that weaker nations have some immobile defenders for their capital, though, that could be kind of cool. It wouldn't stop enemies from stomping all over their empire, but it would make decapitating strikes less possible.

-Max

[Jazzepi]

MaxWilson said:
The way I see it, capital PD is just free meat-shields to combine with your researchers. It's not supposed to be extremely tough (it's only worth about 250 gold), but it's useful for the librarians. I think I'm opposed to the idea of giving an initial 50 PD at capitals, in the base game. PD by itself should not be capable of fending off very many attacks. If you wanted to houserule that weaker nations have some immobile defenders for their capital, though, that could be kind of cool. It wouldn't stop enemies from stomping all over their empire, but it would make decapitating strikes less possible.

-Max

I don't think PD in the capital really fixes the problem. IF you get rushed by a double bless player using Vans, and they conquer all your territories except for your capital, you're just as screwed as if they walked up to your main capital and took it over in the first place.

Jazzepi

[MaxWilson]

Except that the possibility of a comeback at least exists. You've still got some income, and a bunch of researchers, and a little bit of gem income. If the rush player gets distracted elsewhere you might be able to bust back out--probably not to win the game, but at least to make him pay.

-Max