Thaumaturgy

[Crafty]

Newbie here.

I'm trying to get a grip on the magic system.

Having read adnd, I roughly understand what i get with the schools of evocation (battle spells), alteration (buff spells),conjuration (summonings), enchantment (duh). Construction (items) is obvious.

I'm avoiding blood for now, but what do you usually get with Thaumaturgy? It seems to be all over the map. Seems to be death/astral focused??

Could you be kind enough to list some of the more mainstream Thamaturgy spells that are used?

[Lingchih]

Thaumaturgy in the early stages (up to 2) is used to research gem site finding spells (gnome lore, etc.) After that, it is really only useful for astral arcana.

[Sandman]

Most thaumaturgy spells affect the mind. In practice, this means spells which cause damage to non-mindless units, fear-causing spells, beserk-causing spells, spells which steal enemy units, ritual spells which cause enemy units to desert and so on.

It also has teleport spells, spells which reveal magic sites, remote attack spells, spells which cause disease and anti-undead Death spells. It has a few anti-buff elemental spells as well, like dessication and bonds of fire, but these are not very effective.

Most nations will want to research to the Thaum-2 for the site-searching spells. Past that, it's generally astral, death and nature nations which benefit.

[mivayan]

Crafty said:
Could you be kind enough to list some of the more mainstream Thamaturgy spells that are used?

Common early thaumaturgy research goals are imo only the search spells, and astral stuff:
*Astral battle spells with one target, range 100, precision 100, mr negates: Mind burn, paralyze, soul slay, enslave mind.
*Astral spells for travel: teleport, gateway, astral travel (*not* early)

Sometimes these are cool:
*If you have a strong mage facing independents: panic, terror.
*Against SCs: curse, vengeance of the dead.
*You are LA ermor, and you want to piss off everyone else: Burden of time.
*You have death mages, enemy has way too many undead (or undead with high mr): Wither Bones
*You have nature magic, and the enemies capitol (or just armies) are in a forest: Beckoning
*You play MA pythium with an S9 oracle and it's late-game: Master Enslave. (ok.. not so mainstream).

[DrPraetorious]

It's true that most good thaum spells are sorcery, but the fire and water thaum spells shouldn't all be discounted, and the high level air thaum is all pure gravy (although seldom worth the enchantment slots).
I'm only commenting on the ones that I've succesfully used, and which haven't been raised in the thread yet, and which don't require anything terribly clever to use.
The astral "zap" spells (Mind Burn, Soul Slay) are actually for use with Mind Hunt, they're not so hot as combat spells. Still, if you're an astral player forced to fight early and you know Mind Burn, it's better than nothing.
Against certain opponents, however, Mind Hunt can be devastating. Against another human player, it raises their micromanagement threshold if it works, which can turn a war on its own.

Notable thaum spells:
(Level <=2)
Site Searching - Everyone wants these, so everyone will research up to thaum 2.

Communion Master / Slave - fielding a host of astral mages is expensive, but this is an awesome spell in the late game, and a must for Pythium. Most useful in combination with high levels in other schools (e.g. spells like Army of Gold, Heat from Hell, etc,) it lets you actually cast those high level spells, even if you only have a base of 1 or 2 in the corresponding path.

Returning - has a variety of specialized uses. R'lyeh wants it for use in combats that occur during gate-summoning. A horror-marked unit or a mage maintaining a powerful global will wish to cast it in order to escape from horrors or assassins.

(Level 3)
(WATER) Sailor's Death - This is surprisingly worth it for any nation with water 3 on land. It's actually deadlier than a fireball or flare, although it doesn't work on amphibians or poor amphibians. Thaum 3 is a lot cheaper to research than evocation 5 (for falling frost.)

Teleport - Every astral position wants this. In addition to using it in the late game for teleportation drivebys, you can use it to resupply marching armies with gems or with new magic items, and if you have site-searchers on foot (an astral 3 / air 3 archtheurg, for example, is actually better of searching on foot than by spells, since he does astral and air at the same time,) it can save a lot of time. Cloud trapeeze can substitute if you also have air, though.

Panic - A greatly underestimated spell, it's cheap, it has a huge area of effect, and if you have several people casting it, it actually works. As Man and Bandar Log I've outright killed other players with this spell with an awake great sage by concentrating on thaum - 7 great witches casting this spell and his whole army ran away in his capital on turn 10, while being peppered with long bows. Hysterical.

(Level 4-5)
(FIRE) Prison of Fire - A surprisingly useful spell in certain situations. Since the target doesn't actually die and still takes up a space, you can somtimes use this spell to slow an army while you pepper them with archery or with other fire spells. Not a tactic for beginners, but it can be unexpected and deadly.

Terror - Theoretically, should work even better than Panic, *but* the +1 research level means you can't jump someone with this on turn 9 or something.

Telestic Animation - This is a great deal for certain positions - mainly MA Ermor, since each telestic animate can churn out undead.

(FIRE) Raging Hearts - Another greatly underestimated spell. This can be a great means of economic warfare against certain opponents. Abyssia loves this spell, as it enables them to engage in economic warfare (which is not their forte with slow units and no stealth.)

(Level 6-7)
Enslave Mind - This is an interesting spell but hard to use *effectively*. It's high level and only very powerful casters can use it - it was killer in Dominions 2, but in Dom 3 with larger armies you only use it against certain opponents.

Imprint Souls - I sometimes use this spell to get an emergency priest. Like the other remote-army spells, it's generally overpriced, but if your opponent doesn't put up province defense, you can violate them with it.

Wither Bones - Is the best zap spell for use against undead. This can change the course of battles easily.

Leprosy - Oh I love this spell. It's so annoying. This spell is mainly useful for the impact on your opponent's (the actual player's) morale - people just hate it when their cool stuff gets sick.

Plague - This spell can kill entire armies but it's hard to use.

Charm - Only worthwhile in multiplayer and if you have allies, you use this spell to trade mages with other players.

(Level 8-9)
Hydrophobia - This spell is pretty easy to use, actually, and often people don't expect it. You're usually better of just casting falling fires on people and that's not level 8.

Astral Travel - This spell is thoroughly insane. With this and teleport you can go on even footing even with vastly superior opponents, as long as you have the astral pearls to burn.

Master Enslave - Requires a *communion*. If you have an astral/death oracle he can lead the communion but that is not the requirement (astral 5 on the communion leader will do.) Anyway, if you can cast this spell at all it's the most devastating of the battlefield altering spells - reports vary but 16 slaves, each with astral 3+ themselves, enable you to teleport around while casting this spell. The head of the communion casts astral travel (with his astral of 5) to bring an army for backup. Insanity.

[MaxWilson]

RE: Master Enslave. 16 slaves teleporting around burns a lot of pearls, 48 per turn. Seems wasteful. Why not spend a few gems to empower your S5 to S6 or give him a couple of booster items (Starshine Skullcap, Ring of Sorcery, Ring of Wizardry) that also boost penetration? (I.e. to reduce the number of slaves you need to bring.)

On the other hand, with 16 slaves you can, as you've previously pointed out, bring along TWO S5s for multiple Master Enslaves.

Don't forget that Pythium communicants take less fatigue than regular Communion Slaves when casting spells. Hmmm, I wonder... if you arrange a trade with Pythium to get communicants using Enslave Mind instead of Charm (so they're not commanders), do the communicants still participate in communion? Then you could carry them around as part of your Astral Travel army.

One final idea: it's hard to move commanders around but easy to move items. Build 16 Slave Matrixes (cost: 112 earth gems, 112 pearls with a dwarven hammer) and shuffle those around between labs, with cheap indy mages or something to wear them. Obviously pointless if you're an astral nation already.

-Max

[Crafty]

Nice summary DrP!!

I've come to appreciate the power of site searching spells. Smite seems useful for early game too.