Man MA temple cost raised to full?

[Kristoffer O]

Fomoria and Tir na n'Og were the two nations that lived in the land before the age of men. The lore of the Tuatha had much more influence on Man than the Fomorians, but some of the magic of the giants can still be found in the realm.

The death summons are just residual knowledge from the Fomorian lore. The Fomorians used death magic before men came to the land. ME Man rarely use it, but some judges of LE Man might.

[FaceLess]

Can't wait for the new nations

[Xietor]

i like the Avalon theme, as that has a strong base in lore, but the death magic national summons seem misplaced for them for the reasons stated.

As for balance, Man is fine. Especially if the temples are fixed.

I would like to see the Lord of the Forest get something unique. Maybe a longbow of accuracy, a thunder bow, or an ability where animals will not attack him.

There should be a hero named Merlin, however!

[Xietor]

Actually a cool ability that would not be overpowered would be animal charm as an innate ability for the lord of the forest. Since he is the Lord of the Forest, some sort of animal mastery would be cool. Since few nations rely a lot on animals, it would not be overpowered in any way.

[Ewierl]

Personally, I think their unique Pretenders could be a bit spruced up.

Mother of Tuathas is a good concept, and provides for lots of neat stealth-attack tricks, but is probably too expensive to be particularly useful; since her magic paths are generally what you need least as MA man, she's a one-trick pony.

Lord of the Forest compares unfavorably to the ubiquitous Great Mother: for 50 more base points, you get +1 to Nature magic, and save 30 points on new paths. (You also get more combat stats but lose trample and HP, probably a wash there.) Given that the base cost vs. +1N only balances out at N8, it takes a very specific build to make that chassis worthwhile.

(Divine Serpent is OK; I don't know anyone who uses it, but it's certainly good at what it does, stack up nature-only.)

My ideas:
1) Animal awe on the Lord of the Forest, as suggested above, or perhaps dominion-based Wolf summoning or the like.
2) A N/D pretender with residual Fomorian stuff, to match the new summons.
3) A lower-hp, physically smaller entity that is conceptually similar to the Mother of Tuathas. (Could be the same entity as #2)

I feel like there many possibilities for "an Avalon boost", but I want to hold my suggestions until I see what the new nations contain, both to find inspiration and avoid duplication.

[Ewierl]

Okay, on the topic of Man...

I just tried to set up a SP game using the Mother of Tuathas in LA, since her paths actually add a lot of diversity to Man in that era. And I came across a deeply annoying fact about Man, which I can't believe I didn't notice before:

Stealth sacreds but no stealth priests.

This seems like a deeply self-destructive and stupid (lack of) pairing. Am I being one of those whiny people who complains that their favorite nation isn't awesome enough, or is this a conceptual flaw?

(Mind you, I think removing the stealth from the Wardens is a perfectly reasonable solution, though then they might need something new to differentiate them from Defenders. But a return of monks might just be called for. I know you can prophetize a Lord Warden, but that gives you exactly one stealth army, insufficient for any stealth-using strategy.)

[Edi]

That's a conceptual bug or oversight, much like LA Caelum having stealthy troops (Raven Guard) but no stealthy commanders (bar scout, which has 0 ldr). I'll add that to the list.