Couple of questions

[NTJedi]

regular commanders are rarely worth buying unless you're trying to slow down assassins.

[shovah]

or need someone to transport your troops and are far away from any mage recruitment centers

[Cainehill]

Or simply have commanders who are either sturdy, dangerous, or have good leadership : commanders with a leadership of 50 or 75 are _certainly_ a good deal for moving archers, infantry, and vine men to the front.

(Mind - I still think vine men / ogres should require magical leadership, especially as they're mindless and all.)

[castigated]

Cainehill said:
Or simply have commanders who are either sturdy, dangerous, or have good leadership : commanders with a leadership of 50 or 75 are _certainly_ a good deal for moving archers, infantry, and vine men to the front.

(Mind - I still think vine men / ogres should require magical leadership, especially as they're mindless and all.)

THEY CAN MOVE VINE MEN!>!?!?!?!/11!!one....what have i been doing all my life?

[OG_Gleep]

I have a much better perspective on things after playing with Van. As Ulm, I found National commanders key, as Smiths while great, only have 10 natural Leadership. Mid game, individual squads were close to 50 men, so they were key.

Playing as Van however, there is no real reason to build the non mage commander, unless you were out of money. They have mages that also are Generals, with great leadership.

Is there any other race, like Ulm, who really need to build national melee commanders?

[Morkilus]

OG_Gleep said:
Is there any other race, like Ulm, who really need to build national melee commanders?

I would say Nifelheim has this requirement more than anyone else, since indie commanders tend to die to the various cold radiance that their units sometimes produce, and their ideal commander/mage (Nifel Jarl) is way to expensive to recruit every turn. Hence, you make Herses or their various priest types if you can afford it. They can melee well when blessed, I've seen a prophetized Jotun Jarl take down weak indies by himself. I haven't tried base Pan without using their mages heavily, but I imagine their commanders would be pretty good thugs as well. Trouble is, there are never enough castles at the beginning of the game, and when I DO build them, I get research-greedy and summon mages anyway

[Tom_Scudder]

Jarls are cool, what with their 50-man command strength and blessing/undead-zapping priestliness. Although Gygjas have 25 leaderships, so they can cart a fair amount of troops along with them, plus you have a hard time getting up to 50 jotun troops together.

[Morkilus]

Tom_Scudder said:
Jarls are cool, what with their 50-man command strength and blessing/undead-zapping priestliness. Although Gygjas have 25 leaderships, so they can cart a fair amount of troops along with them, plus you have a hard time getting up to 50 jotun troops together.

Not the way I play Jotunheim... Mass Hirdmen (Hirdgiants?) with Ice Pellet Stick backup!