Researching spell is counterproductive

IKerensky · #1 May 5th, 2004, 06:32 PM

I mafe some funny solo game Last night with a 'live' ermor with the Prince of Death pretender. I got to unholy magical level ( all at 4, astral 7 and death 14

) and researched the full library then I start to notice something:

When I only mastered Conjuration, Construction and Evocation I won all the battle easily, turning the ennemy armies in cinder.

I started alteration and my mages start adding some stupid buff spells at the end of their script.

But when I researched Enchantment and Thaumaturgy then they really really become crippled, keeping buffing them and any other unit or chain casting various summon undeads... ( always the low level one of course , and forgetting to drain life some time when fatigue was high, nor relief neither... ).

Basically my Pretender could easily crash several ennemies by casting only direct damage or area damage spells, but when he finish his script he ressort to stupidly low level spells and methods ( 2-3 shield then chain skelettons ), even when not alone... I think that is a pretty unefficient way to bog a 14th levle of Death

I start to think about entirely skipping whole spells schools to improve the AI, is it a good idea ? if so wich one ? Enchantment seems obvious but Alteration and Thaumaturgy have niceties in them

Vynd · #2 May 5th, 2004, 07:32 PM

Heh, I can think of no better demonstration of the fact that the spell casting AI needs improvement than what IKerensky has just described.

If what you really want your spell casters to do is concentrate on direct damage spells, then Evocation seems like the way to go. Or just don't do so much research, period. Invest your resources elsewhere.

Gandalf Parker · #3 May 5th, 2004, 07:43 PM

But for some people, a buffs line of research is the way to go. It depends on how they use their armys and mages. I think he found another great example of how people can find very different tactics that work for them.

And yes the AI needs improvement

[ May 05, 2004, 18:45: Message edited by: Gandalf Parker ]

IKerensky · #4 May 5th, 2004, 07:48 PM

Honestly Gandalf I truly consider that having some buff is a great things, sometimes, for some armies. But if I have once more the choice between being able to buff or have full control ( or even semi control ) of my spellcasters I think I will go for the later.

Right now I am considering concentrating on Evoc, Conj, Cons, with perhaps 1 or 2 level of Alt and replacing the buffs with magical items...

As you say, there is plenty of way to play the game, and in SP it is far less a problem...

AhhhFresh · #5 May 5th, 2004, 07:59 PM

It might help if we had sub categories within the "Cast spells" command, like they have for "Attack"... except it would be "Damage Spells" or "Buffing" instead of "Rearmost".

I imagine it has been suggested before... but if they just created a few subGroups of spells, it would at least improve things I think... so that the guy who's supposed to be casting nether darts doesn't decide he'd rather be a Communion master... or was it a slave? He'll cast both, just in case...

Maybe if we had 5 or so spell casting profiles, where we could list the spells we want our mages to be able to choose from...

PvK · #6 May 5th, 2004, 09:59 PM

Yes spell selection can sometimes be problematic. I have a fire & water caster who keeps refusing to cast Flaming Arrows, in favor of Quickness.

I also sometimes decide not to research Thaumaturgy to avoid Breath of Winter (IIRC).

PvK

IKerensky · #7 May 5th, 2004, 11:47 PM

Well I run a full game try only researching Evoc, Cons and Conj with Live Ermor and manage to win... Wich isn't any good indication as in SP against AI

Anyway my mages performs quite better and as I like to use A LOT OF THEM and summons it definitely doesnt hinder me too much. Interestingly enough the only buff they had is Ethereal Body wich isn't even half that bad .

st.patrik · #8 May 5th, 2004, 11:56 PM

One thing that was suggested that I think would be a great solution (although I'm sure hard to implement) was the ability to 'turn off' certain spells - kind of a negative spell script like 'I don't care what you do cast, but just don't cast these!'

Playing Man and I noticed in a recent battle that one of my mages cast 'beserkers' on my Daoine Sidhe! The height of stupidity. I would have that mage court-martialled.

AhhhFresh · #9 May 6th, 2004, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by st.patrik:
One thing that was suggested that I think would be a great solution (although I'm sure hard to implement) was the ability to 'turn off' certain spells - kind of a negative spell script like 'I don't care what you do cast, but just don't cast these!'

Playing Man and I noticed in a recent battle that one of my mages cast 'beserkers' on my Daoine Sidhe! The height of stupidity. I would have that mage court-martialled.

I propose working from the other direction... where you "enable" spells in a profile... say 1 of 5 that you can store. Then when you select the "cast" order, it opens up another screen (like when you click on "attack")... except that it has 5 numbered profiles that you can pick from, as well as the standard "whatever the hell you want" option.

I'm not sure how hard that would be to do... but even if the profiles had to be made in a text editor outside of the game, it'd be worth it.