Diplomacy

SirOscar · #1 November 2nd, 2000, 06:55 PM

One problem I have with Diplomacy is that it does not have enough options. If I set up a trade and research agreegment with another race the first thing that happens is they plop down a colony in one of my systems. What I would like to see is a sub class to each major class.
A) NO ship travel or colonys in any system I currently have a colony in.
B) Ship travel but no colonys in any system I have a colony in.
C) Systems open to ships and colonys

Of course the agreement would work both ways and you could use the same options with any of the agreements. As it stands now the only thing I can do if they plop a colony down in one of my systems is to ask them to remove it and they always say no. This means I have two choices, war or allow a foreign power in my back yard.

dmm · #2 November 2nd, 2000, 08:25 PM

Yea, I totally agree. When was the Last time you saw a British or Canadian colony in the middle of US territory? Or a big US fleet steaming into Japan uninvited? Or Mexican planes making unscheduled landings at US airports for refueling?

Taqwus · #3 November 2nd, 2000, 09:47 PM

They're just embassies.

Perhaps the non-aggression treaty should include fixing borders, so that both sides promise not to colonize systems colonized by the other, unless they already have colonies in that system, which would go a long ways towards alleviating the problem methinks. That, and if the AIs paid a bit more attention to the possibility that a threat to obliterate them is very, very real... if it's clear that a player's fleets are vastly superior and ready to attack, that should weigh in on things a bit.

At least it ain't SMAC diplomacy. SMAC factions habitually asked for bribes in order to sign treaties, even when they were down to their Last base. The response, naturally, was always genocide...

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

Seawolf · #4 November 3rd, 2000, 01:04 AM

Uh just a thought.

If you are willing to trade with them why wouldn't you want them to be neighbors? Also remember if you agree to a trade agreement how are you supposed to trade if their are no convoys?

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Seawolf on the prowl

SirOscar · #5 November 3rd, 2000, 01:32 AM

There is a big differance between a merchant transport and a Battlewagon. What do you think would happen if a ship full of Germans would show up with the intent to setup a colony in the open deserts of the SW U.S. claiming that no one lived there so they had a right to the land, now Germans might be the best of trading partners but somehow I think that boat would be turned around. Well in my mind when we are talking about traveling the galaxy, planets inside solar systems that I have claimed would be no differant then states inside my country. If we don't agree fine, so give us the option too decide, don't just force me to open up my borders.

Cyrien · #6 November 3rd, 2000, 04:56 AM

Did you check and see if maybe they also hadn't claimed that system?

Just a thought... but only rarely does a computer I have high level alliances with build colonies in my territory... and normally it was in a border system that we had both claimed. Somtimes not though and that does get annoying. *shrug*

mafia · #7 November 3rd, 2000, 05:59 AM

This is a problem in my opinion, however, a simple yet effective solution exists. Add a new ship order "blockade". With a blockade order, your ship would stop any other empire's ships from passing through.
( This would be most effective if the ship were sitting on a warppoint or planet. ) Empires with whom you have a treaty may then decide to message you and ask permission to move through, demand the removal of, or just complain about a blockade you have in place.

The ONLY way for an empire to move through your blockade without your permission would be to cancel treaty and attack.

-mafia

Taqwus · #8 November 3rd, 2000, 06:04 PM

One bit --

A race reduced to NO planets and only immobile ships (bases / cripples shipsb) should probably surrender. It has no population and very little hope of getting a planet from anybody else.

I did see a race with *0* ships, units, or planets left still listed with a score (0); they still had a minefield. However, you can't ask a minefield to surrender (contact lost), so they would remain until each and every mine was removed.

(Unrelated bug -- I had ships whose Combat Sensors III didn't work. 11% or so to hit a BATTLESTATION at range 4 with Enveloping Acid Globules?! Considering ships that I *captured* had working sensors (i.e. usually hit, with +0% experience), this is weird. I'm wondering if there's a bad interaction between having long-range and combat sensors on the same ship, or a bug if the combat sensors are the Last component of the ship.)

[EDIT: Apparently NOT bug; I'd been comparing to ships with WMGs. Did some checking and WMGs appear to get +30% hit. Score one for the 'Big Gun' approach.
]

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-- The thing that goes bump in the night

[This message has been edited by Taqwus (edited 05 November 2000).]

Commander G · #9 November 3rd, 2000, 07:23 PM

quote:
Originally posted by SirOscar:
One problem I have with Diplomacy is that it does not have enough options. If I set up a trade and research agreegment with another race the first thing that happens is they plop down a colony in one of my systems. What I would like to see is a sub class to each major class.
A) NO ship travel or colonys in any system I currently have a colony in.
B) Ship travel but no colonys in any system I have a colony in.
C) Systems open to ships and colonys

Of course the agreement would work both ways and you could use the same options with any of the agreements. As it stands now the only thing I can do if they plop a colony down in one of my systems is to ask them to remove it and they always say no. This means I have two choices, war or allow a foreign power in my back yard.

I really don't see a problem with the AI colonizing unsettled worlds in a trading partner's system. If you want those worlds, colonize them before making the agreement. I've noticed the AI does break treaties and go to war if you move ships into their space. I also recommend that you play against other people if you want more details in treaties. A human player may break-off a treaty if you settle in his system. I view the AI as a tool to learn the mechanics of the game. Once I get the non Demo Version, I intend to play against human opponents and use AIs just to test my race designs. My impression is that Human players are much more cooperative than AI players. Human players will usually make big Technology trades since they benefit both players. AI's tend to reject offers that humans would gladly accept. I have brotherly trade partners that reject 'Gas Giant' for 'Rock' colonization, but humans readily make this sort of deal, providing they like different atmospherese.

Jubala · #10 November 4th, 2000, 02:01 AM

mafia, if a blockade order is implemented then there should exist a "run blockade" order as well. If a ship/fleet jumps through a warp point and find the other en blockaded they can't move past the warp point into the system, but they can stay or jump back while waiting for the player to request permission to pass. Or they can try and run the blockade by outmanuevering the blockading force. Chance of succes depending on number of blockading ships, number of blockade runners and speed of the ships in question. Emergency prop pods can be used trying to run a blockade and it will of course increase chances of succes. Those ships that fail to run the blockade will of course be fired upon. Warning shot first, if they don't stop and turn around they will be destroyed (unless they fire back and win). When you try to run the blockade you can tell your ships how far you want to them to go trying to run the blockade. From stand down when challenged to destroy any opposition and do everything possible to get through.