Newbie impressions

[LeTharg]

I'm new to Space Empires and to the whole 4X genre. I'm a long time gamer, primarily RPGs but also adventure and FPS (first person shooters such as Half-life). My top two favorite games are Deus Ex and Planescape Torment. I tried RTS games such as Wascraft and Starcraft but felt the real-time component detracted from the strategic and tactical side. So when I saw the review of SE4 in PC Gamer, I ordered a copy.

At this point I have played throught 3 times. 1.19 with no mods, large galaxy, AI difficulty on high, the first time with no bonus, then with low bonus and finally with high bonus. I used a medium number of AI players with neutrals and defined my own race. I won all the games easily.

I thought some might be interested in my impressions of the game as an outsider. Overall I'm having fun, am impressed with the depth and replayability of the game and feel that I more than got my money's worth (especially when compared with some games I've bought--I paid retail for Daikatana for example). I intend to keep playing. I haven't begun to explore the capabilities of the game--for example I haven't ever built a freighter, laid a mine, used a racial tech, used tactical combat, used a minister, set a formation or strategy, built a base, traded or captured a technology, used offensive intel or lots of other stuff.

And yet the game wouldn't, at this point, make my top ten list. There are two basic reasons: a clumsy and obstructive UI and the lack of tension.

I've never before played a game where I spent so much time redesigning the UI. I know MM is small and I suppose an ad hoc UI is a natural outcome of the long progression of the game but I would think an object oriented non-modal UI would be easier to implement and maintain than a pile of special cases and modalities. Easier to use too. Oh well, I got things done eventually.

Much more important to me was the lack of tension. I never once felt, in any of my three games, that my empire was in any way imperiled. The only planet I lost was a newly created colony in the middle of someone else's territory (I wondered how easy they were). The lack of tension is certainly do to the AI. When I read that the high bonus was 5X, I wondered how any one could defeat those overwhelming odds. Now I know. As you can see from the list of stuff I haven't done, I am really a novice. Any experienced human player would clobber me. Yet I defeated the AI easily using some elemetary tactical rules:
1. Secure your territory.
2. Defend the narrow places (warp points).
3. Attack with overwhelming force.
4. Pursue technological advantage (guys on horses with stirrups beat those without).
Yet the AI never did any of those things. I was amazed that even with a 5X advantage, I was technologically ahead of all the AI by turn 60. I had stealth, they didn't have (or use?) scanners. They died.

One other note, I didn't understand the AI attitudes. They would warmly urge a treaty on me one turn and then curse me and declare war the next without any change that I could detect. I know about MEE and when I hit it they all sent me nastygrams but nobody really did anything about it. When I was cooperative, they would feel "murderous" and, one masochistic empire felt "brotherly" towards me while I was systematically destroying it. I gave up on trying to work with diplomacy and just did what I wanted without regard to their bleating.

My hope is that the new patch and the mods (once adapted to the patch) will cure the major problems with the AI.

Finally, I think the best thing this game has going for it is the active and intelligent user community (along with the ability to mod it). Thanks for your efforts. I've learned a lot by reading Posts and searching this board. I plan on using the mods once the patch is out.

[doctorcheese]

I got that same feeling as well. I have been very much dissapointed in the lack of challenge the AI has given. When I finally used some of the mods available, I was pleasantly surprised to see my empire attacked a few times by a neighbor. Though, I must admit, I quickly tired from the same destroyer class, only one at a time, come by and try to take the same planet in my system, which was heavily guarded, versus any of the other plantets which were of the same type, but much less guarded.

I, too, never have felt that I was threatened in any way, which is a shame since it seems like it could be a good game.

I'm hoping that this new patch is something else, especially considering that I shelled out $40 for the game, which was something I was a bit reluctant to do given the lack of product documentation.

I suppose we shall see, eh?

[pathfinder]

hehe, welcome aboard. *shakes head* another one who thinks AI don't cut it. been playing since October (demo) and have only won 3-4 times out of 70-80 played.

[Markavian]

If you download SE3, you'll see how happy many people are with the UI style. Its the same sorta thing, but the graphics are a brilliant improvement.

The AI, many people 'complain' about the ease of the AI, - I don't, but I'm not a player. I'm a modder, or mostly a ship set designer - and don't actually get round to playing the game very often!

My site - Universal Shipyards has a whole host of ship sets for download, plus a few feeble extensions (which dont' work since MM brought out several patches). I like Se4, because I can explore what I'm turning out to be good at - 3D modelling. Others are beter at AI modding, others at Component creation etc. etc.

MM designed Se4 to be easily modable, and thats a big appeal to SE4 fans (IMExp.)

Your question about AI Cloaking, I don't think the AI have been designed to cloaking yet.


(Oh yeah, I got my game for less than $40, and I'm in the UK, since I ordered when they did discounts)

[DirkHowitzer]

quote:

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Originally posted by LeTharg:

At this point I have played throught 3 times. 1.19 with no mods, large galaxy, AI difficulty on high, the first time with no bonus, then with low bonus and finally with high bonus.

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I can see where your having problems if your using no mods. Without mods the AI is worse than pathetic....it's in a vegetative state. The mods give a 100% improvement. Of course now your better off to wait for the latest patch and the resulting mods, but I guarantee you would have had better games had you used the mod pack.



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"He's dead, Jim."-- Lt. Commander Leonard "Bones" McCoy |Chief Medical Officer / USS Enterprise (NCC-1701)

[LeTharg]

Thanks folks. I really will give the mods a try once the patch is out. I really appreciate the effort that goes into them. I've even been looking at the files and thinking about what I could do.

Markavians, cool site. I've bookmarked it and will download some shipsets once I got the patch in. Thanks.

[Nyx]

There's no reason to wait on installing the mods unless you don't plan to play at all until the next patch comes out. I've got the mod pack on my home Version and I had a good deal of fun over the weekend. Also, try a PBeM deathmatch (one on one in a small galaxy). Just you and one other human player. The turns go fast and it's about the most exciting way to play that I know of. It's a lot of fun in hotseat mode too (if you can get anyone to join you).

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Compete in the Space Empires IV World Championship at www.twingalaxies.com.