Questions/comments about the AI...

[serpwidgets]

Question: The phong stole ship plans from me for a frigate that has the wormhole-opener component on it.

1- does that mean they now have that technology?

2- will the AI even use those technologies?
(I haven't played that much to know if they use that and the planet making/destroying stuff, but since I've yet to see any of them develop colonization technologies (Rock/Ice/Gas) I'm guessing they won't do anything to change the map.)

Seems WAY too unbalancing if only the human players use it.

----
I was already buddies with the Ukra-tal, and we had both started colonizing rock and ice planets in a system. The Phong then came in and set up colonies on other rock planets. The Ukra-tal took ships over and wiped out about 3 or 4 of the Phong colonies in that system.

A few years later, those two are best friends, and the Phong hate my guts. I can understand them being territorial about the rock planets I colonized in that system, but still, I've had other empires get mad at me, apparently because a few of their retarded ships kept running into my mines (over and over) and they just can't get over it. What gives?

And a comment: If I demand two of my partners (who are at war with each other) make peace, and they both accept and say "OK, we will extend the olive branch," I would expect them to actually make peace... for at least a few turns. Instead they both continue demanding that I stop being friends with the other one and getting mad at me.

Also...

I currently have a partnership and a military alliance with two races whose attitudes toward me have been "murderous" from practically the time I met them. (?)

I until recently had a partnership with the Ukra-Tal, and they were "Brotherly" but they got mad... after two of their other partners (they're in bed with EVERYONE) had been mad at me, attacking me, sabotaging me, etc. without provocation for like 50 turns, I finally brought in a fleet and mopped up 3 of their planets. And instantly when I attacked the first Eee planet, the Ukra-tal broke their treaty with me and within a couple turns went to "murderous."

Is there anywhere I can find information about how much effect certain things (like gifts of resources, techs, ships, or planets) have? Is it possible to have a war with an ally's ally without them getting all pissy about it?

[Atrocities]

Originally posted by serpwidgets:
Question: The phong stole ship plans from me for a frigate that has the wormhole-opener component on it.

1- does that mean they now have that technology?

Um the chances are the AI already has this technology. And no, the AI does not use the plans it stoled to generate new technology it does not already have. It will steal your ships to do that.

2- will the AI even use those technologies?
(I haven't played that much to know if they use that and the planet making/destroying stuff, but since I've yet to see any of them develop colonization technologies (Rock/Ice/Gas) I'm guessing they won't do anything to change the map.)

Yes the AI will use stellor Manipulation technology. However it usually does not use it until after you do, and only very late in the game unless otherwise modded. (Or so has been my experience)

Seems WAY too unbalancing if only the human players use it.

Yes it does doesn't it. You can turn it off in the game set up if you want. Or force the AI to use it by shutting down many of his Warp Points. (WP's)

I was already buddies with the Ukra-tal, and we had both started colonizing rock and ice planets in a system. The Phong then came in and set up colonies on other rock planets. The Ukra-tal took ships over and wiped out about 3 or 4 of the Phong colonies in that system.

A few years later, those two are best friends, and the Phong hate my guts. I can understand them being territorial about the rock planets I colonized in that system, but still, I've had other empires get mad at me, apparently because a few of their retarded ships kept running into my mines (over and over) and they just can't get over it. What gives?

I can not really give you much advise here, it has always been my experience that the AI often turns on me at a certain point and never looks back. There is the Mega Evil Empire setting but you must be really strong for that to kick in. When it does, the other races all turn on you assuming that you are so large that the only way they can survive is to gang up on you.

When you get into modding the AI files, you can mod in a better mood for the AI. IE increase their happyness level from such things as general Messages, trades, etc. It is really easy to do, but once you do it, you will be hooked and want to do more.

And a comment: If I demand two of my partners (who are at war with each other) make peace, and they both accept and say "OK, we will extend the olive branch," I would expect them to actually make peace... for at least a few turns. Instead they both continue demanding that I stop being friends with the other one and getting mad at me.

This is one of the Diplomacy draw backs that many of us dislike. I love the game, but the Political and diplomatic unmodded AI could have been a lot better. Same for Intel.

Also...

I currently have a partnership and a military alliance with two races whose attitudes toward me have been "murderous" from practically the time I met them. (?)

The nature of the game. Why I do not know off hand except to say it might be the size of your empire. Others can offer a more detailed answer.

I until recently had a partnership with the Ukra-Tal, and they were "Brotherly" but they got mad... after two of their other partners (they're in bed with EVERYONE) had been mad at me, attacking me, sabotaging me, etc. without provocation for like 50 turns, I finally brought in a fleet and mopped up 3 of their planets. And instantly when I attacked the first Eee planet, the Ukra-tal broke their treaty with me and within a couple turns went to "murderous."

Is there anywhere I can find information about how much effect certain things (like gifts of resources, techs, ships, or planets) have? Is it possible to have a war with an ally's ally without them getting all pissy about it?

Look in the AI files. Under ANGER, settings, and Politics.

Anger - deals with who the AI will respond either positively or negatively via points to you and your diplomatic efforts. You can increase of decrease these points to alter the AI's anger.

Settings - Open this text document and you will see where you can set the AI to become angry if you colonize in his space or not. There is a Personality Group with a number between 1 and 4. I forget what the numbers represent, but I will try:

1 = Submissively good and very weak.
2 = Evil - nuff said, they just hate you.
3 = Friendly with an open mind.
4 = Periodic Evil and Good with a leave me along attitutde

Politics - I never really messed with this file, but it has to do with the Treaties offered by the AI.

[Atrocities]

I feeled compelled to mention that the best way to deal the AI is via "Gun Boat Diplomacy." (For those of you who remember)

Gryphin-

"I started my first game. The Selay Consortium just hosed a colony ship, @#%Q@#R, Then accepted a Trade Treaty.
What is it about Neutrals that shoot first and ask quesitons later?"

Atrocities-

"Its called Gun Ship Diplomacy. "

- Magnum 357 Signature.

[ April 09, 2003, 07:14: Message edited by: Atrocities ]

[Master Belisarius]

- Think you should play with modded races, then, you will see they will send more than 1 ship at once, and will do more stellar manipulations.
- The AI can't scrap captured ships to get the technology.
- The AI use very well the planet creators, and not so well the planet destroyers.
- The AI use black hole creators and sun destroyers. Is not very smart, but they use it (I can remember a recent game played by the Tessellate, where they destroyed a system with more than 400 of their own ships there!).
- The AI use Warp Openers, but only to open holes to systems don't explored yet... then, of course never will use it like a human can do.

[serpwidgets]

Thanks. I've meandered through most of the files. I've done tons of mods for all kinds of games (mostly 3dFPS levels and Quake/Unreal scripting, but also did a lot on BotF) and I always end up spending all of my time modding and not playing the game.

I'm determined to actually play a game for once, hehe. Thanks for the info, I'm sure I'll get sucked into modding anyway.

[Master Belisarius]

Originally posted by Atraikius:
I think what MB was trying to say was to play the game useing races that have been already modded to perform better (i.e. TDM-Modpack races), not that you need to mod the races yourself.

Yes I have assumed that you already knew that does exist many AI scripts modded.
Thanks Atraikius!

[Atraikius]

I think what MB was trying to say was to play the game useing races that have been already modded to perform better (i.e. TDM-Modpack races), not that you need to mod the races yourself.