LOS and spotting

[badger45]

evan,

88 mm guns in the open... I set up in editor a sample position (meeting engagement) of 4 guns in the basic flat green terrain and advanced against them german infantry platoon (one hex per turn, the slowest speed at which they are best spotting). They discover the 88s at 400 to 350 metres. Flak gunners discovered the infantry at the same time, but too late to open fire (though I ordered them to fire on anything within 1000 metres).

Now take russian rifle platoon. First russian squad was discovered at 500 metres. two others at 450 m, last one at 400 m. Advancing russian rifle platoon still sees nothing no wonder). Two turns pass, before the best experienced squad (exp 60) saw suddenly 3 of 4 88s at range of 300-350 metres. He was the last one that moved that turn, the previous guys under exp 60 were still blind, though they are only 300 metres from the guns. Moreover, I ordered the gunners not to fire until 50 metres in order to avoid demasking effects of firing.

And now, take russian scouts and do the same. At 300 metres they discover all four guns, while the germans stilll see nothing. Just out of curiosity I continued the advance of the scouts. They were discovered at 200 metres two turns later.

What is my point:
1] spotting the barn 88 is not difficult, if your troops have the same experience and size 1 (normal squad, not conscripts or cavalry).

2] spotting the barn 88 with size 0 units (scouts and smaller than squad units) is not difficult even when you are exp 55 and the enemy 75.

Things that ruin your spotting -
a] move more than one hex per turn
b] scout with big units
c] use unexperienced troops

First two points make you easy to be spotted (and if you get under fire from unspotted enemy, you are not good scout).

The second helps your spotting. The more experience, the further you see. (German Para scouts can spot the 88 at 450 metres). Important thign is, that even the runnig conscript will spot the 88 at 250 metres! Therefore, there is no way to easily hide the 88 in the open and the game comes here very close to reality, judging from my experience.

Years ago, we had to hide D-30 howitzers used as battalion antitank reserve - you just have to dig half meter in the ground. In case of 88 may be a meter or so. After that the gun is just about meter above terrain. Meter at 500 m is the same to spot as 1 mm at 50 cm range.

Therefore I think, the game is just OK. If anything, it spots very predictably and quite well compared to reality. I witnessed a motor rifle squad digging into ground hundred meters away from battery of D-30s, not knowing we are there (though we were not precisely in the open, but at the edge of forest).

regards,
badger45