What now????

[Talenn]

Kentavr:

Well, for a game this complex I'm quite sure the AI will need a boost to beat or compete with competent human players. The ability to produce an AI which can make long term plans but take into account reactions to actions taken by others is more or less beyond the ability of programmers and current machines. Oh sure, given a LONG time, I'm sure someone could up with something close, but realistically, that aint gonna happen for SE4. So in the absence of an 'uber-AI', I think it will have to have a 'bonus' of some sort (even if just informational to help in it's decision making).

Concerning diplomacy in MOO: Well, I agree that it was pretty weak in MOO2. My favorite for atmosphere and general play was the original MOO. I think the flavour of the music and facial expressions of the enemy leaders was priceless! It added so much to the game. Sure, there werent a million options, but the options that WERE there meant something. How many of all of the options in SE4 have you actually seen accomplish anything? I've tried here and there to 'ask for help' or 'stop hostilities vs a friend' etc in SE4 and usually receive a generic blow-off or else they agree, but then dont follow through. Having tons of options that dont do much doesnt count for too much in my book. And the fact that all the AIs currently 'act' the same makes them feel bland and stale after a while. At least the races in MOO (not as much in MOO2 though) all felt unique and had to be dealt with in different ways.

And FWIW, MOO/MOO2 were remarkably stable for me and the folks I played with (including by modem in MOO2).

Would I rather play SE3 than MOO2? Yes, I sure would. SE3 was a fantastic leap ahead and the ability to customize the enemy races and have them react more or less 'in character' was one its greatest strengths IMO.

And for me, I play with 5000 racial points, but only use 1k or 2k of the points. This gives the AI a decided advantage in that department and I think its sorely needed.

Hmmm, no IMO, nuking the AI before I even meet it is the LEAST of my problems in this game. In fact, whenever I encounter an opposing race I'm usually BEGGING for them to be hostile right off the bat. Its far more challenging than when they come groveling for treaties every other turn. Sure, I can (and do) turn them down, but IMO, they should have some fight in them on their own, especially the ones like 'violent berserkers' etc.

Yes, the combat AI in the SE series is pretty decent as long as there are no complex situations. MOO2 got around this by having a butt-simple combat system in which only the bigger and better direct fire weapons were worth much. This made their combat AI work OK. There wasnt much else to do except move forward and mass firepower, something it did a fair job of. SE's combat is far more diverse and I'm far more willing to cut it some slack in that department. Again, there are just too many permutations for a standard AI programmer to have it perform optimally. No problems there IMO, just make sure it has enough ships in the right places and its off to a good start.

Anyways, there is nothing shockingly new here. Its a simple restatement of the way people are currently perceiving the game. I am still enjoying it immensely due the ability to mod and tweak. If I couldnt or didnt have the time, I probably would have ceased playing as well. The stock AI in the stock game just doesnt hold the interest for too terribly long.

I dont mean for this post to be negative or 'bashing' the game. Overall, I think its great. With some more work, I'm sure it will be even better. Luckily, MM and SG seem commited to continuing that work.

Finally, dont be afraid to pick on us. I think most of us are big boys and girls and can handle ourselves just fine. Its all a matter of opinions in here and everyone is entitled to their own.

Talenn