Mod Idea: Simulating surfaces -> Borg Technology -> Twinkie Physics -> Worldviews

[jimbob]

Three items
1) how far can analogy go
2) how far can the 'design argument' go
3) one twinkie at a time

1) As to analogy, I *personally* see no reason why the universe cannot be compared to any other complex object, for example a car, a house, or even a twinkie for that matter. Depending on how you compare two objects (ie. the frame work of discussion) it could be invalid to compare the proverbial cat to the proverbial tree (they are both alive, they should both have hearts), or it could be valid to compare the cat to a tree (they are both alive, they must both have circulatory systems). Analogy is a sticky thing, but it is one of our most powerful tools of communication, so I'm not naturally inclined to discard it.

So my thought (apologies to Hume) is that the scale of relatednes in the case of universe vs. house is very distant, but what we demand of the objects in terms of similarity is only the characteristic of extreme complexity - not function. As such, I personally find the complexity issue to be compelling, requiring an "answer" of some sort.

2)
IF said:

At best, the design argument shows that there could be many gods, they/it are not necessarily perfect, they/it are not necessarily benevolent, and not necessarily infinite.

Personally, I agree here - that the design argument does not/should not speak to the identity of said 'designer' at all. It should be merely employed to suggest that the degree of complexity observed does not appear to be due to chance (probability). It could be a god as we think of a god, it could be aliens that have a degree of ability that we conceive as those associated with a god(s). It could be many uber-powerful entities, it could be one.

3) For the sake of keeping all the lines of discussion clear however, I think it may be useful to take on just one line of thought/thread at a time - lots of us think that the Christian God sucks eggs, but that's not a good argument for evolution! Lots of us think He's a hip dude, but that's not a good argument for design! Lots of us are agnostic (should that be capitalized?) but that's not a good argument for them both being true simultaneously!
And so I'd tend to think that the question of the robustness of evolutionary theory, the question of design and the question of the putative designers identity/characteristics are actually three separate questions, that should probably be discussed separately... more for clairity's sake than the entertainment value

night y'all, hope you take no offense, as none has been intended.

jimbob

[ December 14, 2002, 08:04: Message edited by: jimbob ]