OOB24 ARVN Suggestions

[thatguy96]

Note these are just suggestions. I'm not at all familiar with 100% of the scenarios, so things like "could be removed" could easily be interpreted as reclassing units or simply using the X3 radio code. Similarly, not knowing the full extent of game engine mandated design decisions throughout the years, things I might suggest could easily be impossible for one reason or another. Like I said, these are only suggestions.

I also don't think that I somehow own this topic, so if people have conflicting sources, please share. I'm always on the lookout for more information.

I'm going to start this out by looking at some of the armor units. This of course will be a running project.

Unit 003: M5
Unit 007: M4A1

Would suggest setting the end date for these units to 12/54, or perhaps even earlier in 1954. None of the sources available to me suggests that either of these vehicles were passed to the fledgling South Vietnamese armor corps. The French precense following the defeat at Dien Bien Phu in May 1954 meant that their military presence rapidly fell off in country as well.

Unit 005: H39

Would suggest setting the end date for this to 12/49. I understand this already has an X3 radio code, which is good seeing as how few of these were likely sent from France and how its really unclear what their dispositions were. However, I think its not unreasonable to assume that with the arrival of the M24 in 1950 that these vehicles were quickly removed from service or at most pushed into Cambodia (where it is already in the OOB) or Laos (not in game).

Unit 009: M24
Unit 010: M24
Unit 178: M24 Pillbox

Unit 009 could probably have its end date set to 12/65. The first M41s arrived in March 1965 and did not immediately replace the M24s.

Unit 010's start date should then be changed to 1/66 and should be given an X3 radio code. The tanks that remained were deployed either in largely static roles (see the following paragraph about M24 pillboxes) or were part of a 12-tank VNAF unit, loosely affiliated with the VNAF base security forces, but directly attached to the VNAF Headquarters under Nguyen Cao Ky and described in multiple sources as effectively an anti-coup force.

When I read the sources on M24 pillboxes I imagined something like unit 178, a turret on a concrete base or something like that. Apparently, the reality better reflects the immobilized "dug-in" tank fortifications found in other OOBs. I'm not really familiar about the armor rating differences or conventions between turrets mounted on fort bases and immobilized tanks, but it should reflect the latter.



Unit 266: M8

Would suggest changing the start date to 1/50 and end date to 12/66. According to some of my sources, the French created a mixed French/Vietnamese unit during 1950 with M8 armored cars, prior to establishing the armor school in 1952. On the end date, unlike the M24s, I have seen little photographic evidence that the M8s survived very long after the reorganizations following the influx of M113s and M41s. The first V-100s appear in October 1965 as well, which were intended specifically to replace the M8. They are, however, still in the official documentation ~1966. The other option would be to create another M8 unit from 1/65 onward with an X3 radio code. The RF Mechanized Platoons already had their own seperate grouping of vehicles as well, so these would not have been passed to them. They began to replace those vehicles with V-100s themselves ~1967.

Unit 265: Panhard 178B

Would suggest either removing this unit or giving it an X3 radio code. Sources available to me suggest that there were very few of these vehicles operated by the South Vietnamese, and they were purely for training purposes. If X3 radio code is used, start date of 1/52 (when they were turned over to the armor school) and end date of 12/52 (the 3rd Blinde Regiment Vietnamien is created in 1953 with M8 armored cars, M3 halftracks, M3 scout cars and M8 HMCs).

Sources:

Primary Sources:

- Armor Organization for Counterinsurgency Operations in Vietnam. US Army Concept Team in Vietnam, 1966.

Secondary Sources:

- Dunstan, Simon. Armor of the Vietnam Wars. London, UK: Osprey Publishing, 2002
- Grandolini, Albert. Armor of the Vietnam War: (2) Asian Forces. Hong Kong: Concord Publications, 1998
- Green, Michael and Peter Sarson. Armor of the Vietnam War: (1) Allied Forces. Hong Kong: Concord Publications, 1996
- Lathrop, Richard and John McDonald. Cadillac Gage V-100 Commando 1960-71. Oxford, UK: Osprey Publishing, 2002
- Mesko, Jim. Armor in Vietnam: A Pictorial History. Carrollton, TX: Squadron/Signal Publications, 1982
- Rottman, Gordon and Donald Spaulding. Vietnam Armor in Action. Hong Kong: Concord Publications, 2002

Web Sources:

- http://picasaweb.google.com/zippo132/ARVNArmor#
- http://members.lycos.co.uk/Indochine.../afvs.html#top