Commonwealth AC and tank discrepancies

[Kiwikkiwik]

Valentine tanks in the game have no self defence smoke dischargers, Actually they did have them. The game picture of the Mk XI actually shows them mounted on the side of the turret. Up until Mk VII there is a 2" mortar mounted in the turret just next to the MG and smoke bombs are carried. This configuration is probably quite difficult to use effectively, but Mk IX changes the configuration to rear mounted smoke dischargers.
Churchill Mk I and MkII have the same Turret mounted 2" mortar but again have no Self Defence smoke in the game.

Some service date discrepencies for Centaur courtesy of Fletchers book British Battle Tanks.
Unit 313 Centaur Dozer game start date is 10/44 Fletcher gives 4/45
Unit 309 "Centaur IV" Game has UK service from 6/44 to 10/44 sould be 6/44 to 6/44. Fletcher gives these tanks just two weeks British service with the Royal Marines. And goes on to add that after those two weeks they were divided up between the French who didnt use them; the 6th LAA battery of 27th light Regiment of the 51st Highland division (as AA conversions?) see
http://ww2f.com/threads/centaur-what...they-do.13061/
and lastly some to the Canadian 6th Airbourne division and used in the 'X' Armoured battery, 53rd light Regiment and on 6/8/44 (Game has correct start date) some went to create the Ist Canadian Centaur battery.
Confirmed in
https://milart.blog/2017/05/31/1st-c...r-battery-rca/

UK unit 607 "M-H II 2pdr", 608 M-H II 20mm, 609 M-H II 37mm and 610 M-H II 47mm all have turret side, rear and top values of 1, should all be 0. Compare these equipments to German unit 426 "SdKfz 221 sPzB". In the German unit the gun is mounted much lower down, leaving the operators much less exposed than Marmon but 221 gets turret side, rear and top values of 0, Marmons and 221s are both field guns retaining their sheilds mounted in open turret rings, yet the 221 gets turret side, rear and top values of 0, Marmon 1's.

Fletchers book "British Battle tanks American made" has some start service dates for staghound armoured cars. they are,
For NZ service starts on 8-9/43, game has start date 1/43.
For UK service starts on 10/43, game has 7/43 which is about when they arrived in Egypt for training and familiarisation with units re-equiping for Italy.
For Canadian service starts on 2/44, game has 7/43. First use by the canadian of the 3" unit 352 "Staghound MkII" 12/44 game has 1/45.
3" Staghound MkII was originally a NZ field conversion but doesn't appear in the Aus/NZ OOB.
Game has Staghounds Appearing in the Aus/NZ and Indian service in 1/43 probably should be later than 10/44. Poland gets them a month early in 9/43.
Canadian unit 353 Staghound MkIII. Fletcher says "first 3 sent to manitoba Dragoons in Germany"
So Allies entered Germany about 3/45? so game start date of 1/45 looks early. UK OOB also has it as unit 851 with 1/45 start date.

Canadian units 350 and 351 'Staghound + Rkt' with start dates of 1/45 never saw service.

Quoting Fletcher again. About Tulip equipment unit 351 'Staghound + Rkt'
"cancelled a February 1945 plan to convert enough to issue to serving units"
I read this as meaning unit 351 didn't see service reasons given being that they were inaccurate long range and at short range "often" failed to detonate.

Regards unit 350 'Staghound + Rkt' land mattress variant, didnt see service either, it was still in development in 12/45 see
https://milart.blog/2014/09/07/stagh...cket-launcher/

https://www.tanks-encyclopedia.com/w...rmored-car.php
Also comments
"No Staghounds fitted with rockets were used in action."

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Kiwikkiwik

Canadian units 350 and 351 'Staghound + Rkt' with start dates of 1/45 never saw service.

Did you even bother to read the text that accompanies those two units which points out they were only used in very, very limited numbers and may or may not have actually been used ?

They were built and photos exist showing them which is why they were added along with the text.

If you don't think they should be used DON'T USE THEM......it's that simple

[Kiwikkiwik]

Well the text should include the word prototype as there is no evidence these configurations saw service, but plenty to the contrary

[DRG]

Staghound Mk1. Tulip with 4x60lb Rockets - This field conversion was used on only a handful of Canadian Staghounds in the late war period. The Staghound wore a pair of similar racks but with four 60 lbs. rockets, similar to the Sherman IC (M4A4) Tulip, but with two rails on each side. Like the Sherman tank, the conversion was tagged as Tulip. The Staghound Tulip served with the XII Manitoba Dragoons in France, 1944. The rockets were not especially accurate at long range .*

I have highlighted the relevant sections

It should be obvious to anyone these were rare vehicles

[Kiwikkiwik]

British grant tank has the 2" smoke discharger mounted in the turret same as valentine etc.
This weapon would be difficult to use as the entire turret needs to be traversed to aim the smoke bomb(s) so perhaps generate just one smoke hex rather than 3?
If you like I can provide the number of smoke bombs carried by the various tanks.

[Kiwikkiwik]

OK good so I think we can agree then that unit 350 Staghound + Rkt never saw service. As far as the Tulip conversion, unit 351 I think the game text for the unit you quoted is an error, as regards the second red highlighted section. Do you have any evidence that it is correct?
as fletcher says
"cancelled a February 1945 plan to convert enough to issue to serving units" I read this to mean none went to serving units. They were just tested in the rear areas.

[DRG]

That was the info I found in 2018 when unit 351 was added to the OOB. That you or anyone else finds alternate or contrary info about any one of the 13000 + units in the game is no surprise at all.

BUT AGAIN......It should be obvious to anyone these were rare vehicles. They were added because there were photos of them completed with armament.

That said this exceedingly minor issue has become tiresome so I have moved both to the Prototype UC. If someone wants to use one in a "what-if" game they still can.

[zovs66]

There is nothing wrong with having prototypes or rare vehicles in the OOBs. Please don’t remove, nothing wrong with WW2 hypothetical scenarios.

[Mobhack]

What-if is always good fun.

We already have plenty of what-if stuff in various OOBs - he'll probably be moanig about the Maus next? - that is there for precisely that reason (and its fun to try them out)

[DRG]

Originally Posted by zovs66

There is nothing wrong with having prototypes or rare vehicles in the OOBs. Please don’t remove, nothing wrong with WW2 hypothetical scenarios.

They have not been removed just "reassigned"