Suhiir's Revised USMC OOB #13

[cbreedon]

I am definitely interested. I have been overwriting the standard oob with yours since you started. If you don't publish your variant anymore I will probably manually incorporate most the list into mine anyways. I have appreciated your work and hope to see it continue.

[cbreedon]

Looking at the OOB what is the difference between weapon 25 and 9? They both say M16A4 ACOG.

[Suhiir]

Weapon #09 = Primary Infantry Weapon (used in weapon slot #1)
Weapon #25 = Secondary Infantry Weapon (used in weapon slots 2-4)

Primary Weapons get a modifier to hit based on the number of men in the unit, Secondary do not. Most OOBs use a Primary Weapon as an alternate weapon for things like ATGM teams, but because they are in weapon slot #2 (usually) they have a rather poor base accuracy (1) so they're relatively ineffective. By creating a Secondary Weapon for use in this slot the teams can be semi-useful as infantry.

[shahadi]

When loading out units for a scenario, primary weapons occupy the first weapons slot from the Mobhack Unit tab, and verification of weapon status maybe obtained in the Weapons Class from the Weapons tab. Right?

Now, to load out a unit from the D-key in the Editor, it would be wise to check the Mobhack for primary/secondary weapon status, correct?

This is really good stuff Suhiir, thanks.

[scorpio_rocks]

the problem is this now needs to be done for every other OOB to keep things even/fair when fighting USMC...

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by shahadi

When loading out units for a scenario, primary weapons occupy the first weapons slot from the Mobhack Unit tab, and verification of weapon status maybe obtained in the Weapons Class from the Weapons tab. Right?

Correct, "Primary Weapons" are Weapon Class 1.

Originally Posted by shahadi

Now, to load out a unit from the D-key in the Editor, it would be wise to check the Mobhack for primary/secondary weapon status, correct?

It would be prudent.

[Suhiir]

Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks

the problem is this now needs to be done for every other OOB to keep things even/fair when fighting USMC...

The USMC as a whole tends to emphasize marksmanship more then any national army (of course commando/special forces of any nation are NOT the same as their national army). And unlike most national armies everyone from infantry to cooks to radar technicians must re-qualify every year and failure to do so may well lead to a discharge.

So ... the USMC having a slight advantage over other OOB's doesn't seem unreasonable IMHO.

[shahadi]

Originally Posted by Suhiir

So ... the USMC having a slight advantage over other OOB's doesn't seem unreasonable IMHO.

The ROK Marines have earned "warrior class" status. The Battle of of Tra Binh Dong in '67 attest to their having earned admiration from the USMC. Here is what Jones shared: "In establishing the Marine Corps Martial Arts Program (MCMAP), Gen James L. Jones frequently recounted his observations of Korean Marines during the Vietnam War. The fact that Republic of Korea (ROK) servicemen were skilled in the Korean martial art tae kwon do was widely known, evoking respect among allies and instilling fear in the enemy. The former Commandant recalled that his own Marines envied this skill, believing the Korean Marines were the most feared adversary on the battlefield and that North Vietnamese soldiers and Viet Cong irregulars would bypass Korean units whenever possible."(citation: LtCol James F. Durand Marine Corps Gazette
July 2005)

IMHO, and I do not differ with Suhiir, not substantially anyway, on markmanship, because truly, the warrior within does not depend on the weapon, but on his mind as echoed in the MCMAP credo: "One Mind, Any Weapon."

Originally Posted by scorpio_rocks

the problem is this now needs to be done for every other OOB to keep things even/fair when fighting USMC..

Let me say this, the goal as I understand of the oob's are not to make the game "even" or "fair," or ought not to be IMHOP; further, if we are striving to keep simulation in the game, then we must concede what happens in the real world, all armies are not equal either in equipment or personnel.

Lastly, I'd vote the ROKs right up there with the USMC, they stand shoulder to shoulder.

[DRG]

Originally Posted by shahadi

Let me say this, the goal as I understand of the oob's are not to make the game "even" or "fair," or ought not to be IMHOP; further, if we are striving to keep simulation in the game, then we must concede what happens in the real world, all armies are not equal either in equipment or personnel. .

Which is why there are variations in the morale and experience ratings of each nation in the game and that's as far as it's going to go

Don

[Suhiir]

I've worked with ROK Marines a few times and VERY thoroughly believe their unofficial motto "ROK Hard" is well deserved.
I'd say in attitude and training they're easily on par with the USMC, if not a step or two ahead.

While it would certainly be possible to go thru the OOBs and modify and any all such units (SAS, Green Berets, Spetsnaz, the list goes on...) to give them similar slight advantages I'll mention researching and rebuilding the USMC OOB was around 4-800 man-hours of work. Now multiply that by 91 OOB's (seeing as 1, the USMC is already tweaked) and the simple answer is ... it ain't gonna happen.

Now, if it bothers you enough to do ALL the research yourself and create a custom OOB, based on verifiable research NOT "best guess" go for it !