Soviet Army 1989, Category C

[wulfir]

What equipment, AFVs/APCs, artillery, AT weapons etc would normally have been fielded by a Soviet Category C Division around 1989? I guess we're talking Motor Rifle Division...

[shahadi]

"Soviet divisions are divided into three categories, depending on the number of `bears' absent in peacetime:
Category A-divisions which have 80% or more of their full strength
Category B-those with between 30% and 50%
Category C-those with between 5% and 10%..."

Source:http://militera.lib.ru/research/suvorov12/04.html.

"The Category A divisions were certified combat-ready and were fully equipped. B and V divisions were lower-readiness, 50–75% (requiring at least 72 hours of preparation) and 10–33% (requiring two months) respectively." [The V division may be a typo] Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_Army.

From these two sources we can say the Category letter alphabet rating refers to the readiness of the division.

Yeah, those division would be Motor Rifle Divisions or MRDs, but not required as the Category does not denote the type of division. A Rifle Division (RD) stationed on the Chinese frontier could have a Category B or C, or even an A designation for example.

So, are you hunting Bears?

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by wulfir

What equipment, AFVs/APCs, artillery, AT weapons etc would normally have been fielded by a Soviet Category C Division around 1989? I guess we're talking Motor Rifle Division...

Likely to be older generation kit. T55, T62, BTR-60, towed D-30 and AKM rather than AK-74 etc. And probably equipped with 'civilian' trucks mobilised from the local economy - Soviet era civvie trucks were considered 'war reserve' items IIRC.

Reservists recalled to the colours would likely have done their national service 3 or more years back as well.

[AMX]

Originally Posted by shahadi

The V division may be a typo

Translation issue, actually.
The original used the Cyrillic alphabet, after all.

[wulfir]

Originally Posted by shahadi

So, are you hunting Bears?

I played a PBEM game. Switzerland vs USSR, 1989.

The idea was that plenty of WP first line forces had been used up against NATO and for the attack on the Swiss it was less sexy stuff.

My idea was to use a Cat C Regiment. For this I bought:

Recon Co (infantry type, BRDM-2s with scout teams armed with RPG7s)

Tank Bn (3 Companies with T-62D)

3 Mot Rifle Bn's (each 3 Reserve Companies with AK47s, RPKs and RPG7s along with a Inf Bn Support Co with 82mm mortars, Strela-2 and AT teams with SPG-9, Malutka-P and RPG7).

BTR Group (For lack of points I could only buy enough APCs for 1 Bn, I got BTR-60PBs for three Reserve Companies).

Arty Bn (122mm towed D-74 guns, got two batteries, I guess the rest of the Bn was diverted or destroyed somwhere enroute to Switzerland. I got D-74 but should probably have bought D-30...)

Engineer Company (1 Engineer Platoon)

AA Element (4 Strela-1M)

Transport and Supply Group (A few trucks and ammo units)


I'm unsure of the Malutka-P and the Strela-1M..., but they seemed to be a resonable choice. What about division level artillery - all towed? Any BM21 units...? Would there have been any 100mm AT guns...?

[Mobhack]

In mountains, you may well see the 160mm mortars being allocated from stores - as these seemed to figure in mountain warfare oriented divisions, as well as perhaps the towed MRL equipment rather than SP.

(though we have an end date of 85 for the 16cm mortar in the OOB - you could buy as captured from a friendly nation to represent a few found lying about)

[sabresandy]

I would think the 100mm AT guns would be part of the equipment for the older divisions, but the Kastet and Kan missiles would not be. I play with a modified Orbat to reflect that fact. Try cloning over the T-12 gun from the North Vietnamese orbat and giving it better vision and a laser rangefinder.

[wulfir]

There are T-12 type AT guns in many WP nation OOBs. I think it would be easier to just buy them as captured kit rather than edit OOBs for a single PBEM game...

Thing is, I need to educate myself a bit on all the variants of Russian gear. Not quite sure what type of formation used what for some of the equipment...

I'm also interested in the Swiss army defences. Especially the use of armour - supposedly the Swiss had more manouver-oriented ideas in the 1980s than previously - i.e. they did not *only* prepare for mountain forts, blown bridges and landslides.

In the first PBEM game I neglected to check out the Swiss OOB and got a nasty surprise from Leopard 2s and SP Artillery with CM munitions. My Cat C regiment lost most of the tank bn, one full rifle bn with most of the availiable BTRs and the other rifle bn's were reduced with about a company each.

[SaS TrooP]

And I was da victor, mwahahahahah!

And btw Wulfir, it seems I have more or less correctly (and accidentally) recreated modern construction of Swiss Combined Arms Battalion, they have many of such since XXI century.
Yet however, I would be glad for some interesting OOB or formation organization from the '80s.
Any swiss armyman here?

[Pats]

How it was stated here already, the swiss army did exactly that. Prepare everything to hold off a red Invasion. Espacially in the late 80's with Leo2 and introducing night vision capabilities an attack on the swiss could have been a nightmare LOL. 650'000 - 800'000 men could have been at arms in 12hrs time...
Looks at lot different this days.
Inthe 60's what so ever. We had the men power, but not the equipement to hold off an Invasion very Long... aged cebnturions and amx-13 wouldn't do much to a attack.
In the 80's Panzer 68 was then spine of the armed Forces.
There were over 200 tanks in about 14 Pz Bats.

For my personal expirience the time after 95 seemed a bit chaotic ;-)