Usa Oob

[Imp]

Unit 899 Bradley (with 50 vision) has a range finder rating of 14 not 22
Units 783 784 MMG 3 man team lugging 2 MMGs

Just noted as was having a flick round to see what was new.

Mixing topics here but CM arty adjustments had a quick look & yet to use any in anger but was wondering if the Russian TOS-1 Buratino flame system got missed.
If I understand correctly now use HE AP rating & this has 22.

[DRG]

Unit 899 Bradley (with 50 vision) has a range finder rating of 14 not 22-------------CORRECTED IN MASTER---305 CORRECTED AS WELL

Units 783 784 MMG 3 man team lugging 2 MMGs***** LOOKING INTO THAT... ---------- OK...... I looked into that and it's been that way for a couple of years. In the v5.5 oobs and before it was 4 men, in v6 it turned into 3. I didn't touch that unit this time around. I've noted this down to look into when I start OOB work next fall........ all of the MG teams in that series are three men now and were 4....it may have been done to preserve their size zero status or fit into transport but I'll have to check what other teams in other oobs are ( 780 has raised concerns as well and will be investigated ) it may be that this group needs to be reduced to 1 MG OR increase the crew size but there are a host of knock-off effects that need to be checked especially if they are used in mech formations so I'll save that for another day

Just noted as was having a flick round to see what was new.

Mixing topics here but CM arty adjustments had a quick look & yet to use any in anger but was wondering if the Russian TOS-1 Buratino flame system got missed.
If I understand correctly now use HE AP rating & this has 22

They are FAE rockets John, not CM--napalm uses the same numbers it always did






Don

[Imp]

Don't play as USA to often hence just found.
Also MMG unit 496 used in Stryker formations is wrong 2MMG 6men but size zero.
MGs are normally size 0 if have 1 & size 1 for 2 or more.
USA already has far more size zero troops than most hence the reason I don't play them often.

[DRG]

They shouldn't have any they don't deserve. We went though all the OOB's last year with a robot correcting men vs size. I guess we'll have to look at that again. Everything should have been standadized

.......

OK checked this. Your information on size vs men is out of date.

There are NO MG units in MBT with 7 men that are size zero but there are 306 6 man MG teams that are size zero in MBT ( ALL nations not just the US ) That was the cut off for size zero MG teams made for the 2012 OOB's so that issue, isn't

Here's the list. Check them out for yourself. ALL nations were standarized last year so if one nation has X men and Y size so will all the rest. I'm kinda surprised you just noticed



Don

NatID NationName name slot men size
1 Egypt SGM MMG Sec 87 6 0
1 Egypt PKM MMG Sec 88 6 0
2 Poland SGM MMG [2] 93 6 0
2 Poland PKMS MMG [2] 94 6 0
2 Poland PKMS MMG [2] 213 6 0
2 Poland UKM MMG [2] 235 6 0
2 Poland SG-43 MMG [2] 351 6 0
2 Poland SG-43 MMG [2] 352 6 0
2 Poland SG-43 MMG [2] 475 6 0
2 Poland PKMS MMG [2] 477 6 0
2 Poland PKMS MMG [2] 478 6 0
2 Poland UKM MMG [2] 479 6 0
3 Syria 7.5mm LMG Sec 95 6 0
3 Syria SGM MMG Section 97 6 0
3 Syria PKM MMG Section 98 6 0
4 Israel Maglad LMG Sec 460 6 0
4 Israel Bren LMG Sec 461 6 0
4 Israel BeZe MMG Sec 463 6 0
4 Israel .30 MMG Sec 464 6 0
4 Israel FN MAG MMG Sec 465 6 0
4 Israel Negev MMG Sec 466 6 0
4 Israel M1919 MMG Sec 471 6 0
4 Israel FN MAG MMG Sec 472 6 0
4 Israel Negev MMG Sec 473 6 0
6 France .30 MMG Section 271 6 0
6 France 7.5mm AAT52 MGs 274 6 0
6 France 7.62mm NF-1 MGs 275 6 0
6 France 7.62mm NF-1 MGs 276 6 0
6 France 7.92mm MG42 MGs 288 6 0
7 Great Britain GPMG SF Section 185 6 0
8 PLO SGM MMG Section 91 6 0
8 PLO PKM MMG Section 92 6 0
9 Jordan .303 Bren LMGs 420 6 0
9 Jordan .30 M1919 MMGs 421 6 0
9 Jordan 7.62mm FN MMGs 422 6 0
9 Jordan 7.62mm M60 MMGs 423 6 0
10 Iran M1919 MMG Sec 91 6 0
10 Iran MG1 MMG Section 92 6 0
10 Iran M60 MMG Section 93 6 0
12 USA Abn MMG Section 487 6 0
12 USA Abn MMG Section 488 6 0
12 USA MMG Section 490 6 0
12 USA MMG Section 491 6 0
12 USA MMG Section 493 6 0
12 USA MMG Section 495 6 0
12 USA MMG Section 496 6 0
12 USA Abn MMG Section 779 6 0
13 USMC 30 cal MMG Sec 420 6 0
13 USMC M60 MMG Sec 421 6 0
13 USMC M240 MMG Sec 422 6 0
13 USMC M240 MMG Sec 447 6 0
14 China SGM MMG Section 208 6 0
14 China T57 MMG Section 209 6 0
14 China T67 MMG Section 210 6 0
15 Australia SFMG Section 147 6 0
15 Australia SFMG Section 148 6 0
15 Australia SFMG Section 149 6 0
15 Australia SFMG Section 150 6 0
16 Gulf States 7.62mm MMG Sec 91 6 0
16 Gulf States 7.62mm MMG Sec 92 6 0
17 Iraq 7.62mm MMG Sec 101 6 0
17 Iraq 7.62mm MMG Sec 102 6 0
18 India 2x7.62mm MMG 325 6 0
18 India 2x7.62mm MMG 326 6 0
18 India 2xBren LMG 327 6 0
19 North Korea SGM MMG (2) 400 6 0
19 North Korea PKMS MMG (2) 401 6 0
19 North Korea SGM MMG (2) 410 6 0
19 North Korea PKMS MMG (2) 411 6 0
19 North Korea 12.7mm DShK HMG 422 6 0
19 North Korea 12.7mm NSV HMG 423 6 0
19 North Korea 12.7mm DShK HMG 424 6 0
20 South Korea .30in MMG Sec 255 6 0
20 South Korea M60 MMG Sec 256 6 0
20 South Korea .30in MMG Sect 260 6 0
20 South Korea M60 MMG Sect 261 6 0
21 Taiwan 30 cal MMG Sec 260 6 0
21 Taiwan M60 MMG Section 261 6 0
22 Mujahideen SGM MMG Section 92 6 0
22 Mujahideen PKM MMG Section 93 6 0
22 Mujahideen M60 MMG Section 94 6 0
22 Mujahideen T67 MMG Section 95 6 0
23 North Vietnam 7.62mm MMG Sec 282 6 0
23 North Vietnam 7.62mm MMG Sec 283 6 0
23 North Vietnam 7.62mm MMG Sec 284 6 0
23 North Vietnam 12.7mm HMG Sec 285 6 0
23 North Vietnam 12.7mm HMG Sec 286 6 0
23 North Vietnam SGM MMG Section 360 6 0
24 South Vietnam .30 MMG Section 65 6 0
24 South Vietnam 7.62mm MMG Sec 66 6 0
25 Pakistan MG3 MMG Section 297 6 0
25 Pakistan GPMG SF Section 298 6 0
26 Afghanistan SGM MMG Section 92 6 0
26 Afghanistan PKM MMG Section 93 6 0
26 Afghanistan T67 MMG Section 94 6 0
29 Norway M1919 MMGs 114 6 0
29 Norway MG3 MMGs 117 6 0
29 Norway Vz.37 MMGs 181 6 0
29 Norway MG3 MMGs 435 6 0
29 Norway MG34 MMGs 436 6 0
29 Norway MG3 MMGs 647 6 0
29 Norway MG3 MMGs 659 6 0
30 Canada SFMG Section 120 6 0
30 Canada SFMG Section 121 6 0
30 Canada SFMG Section 122 6 0
30 Canada SFMG Section 123 6 0
30 Canada SFMG Section 124 6 0
30 Canada Para SFMG Sec 531 6 0
30 Canada Para SFMG Sec 532 6 0
30 Canada Para SFMG Sec 533 6 0
30 Canada Para SFMG Sec 534 6 0
31 Greece .30 M1919 MMGs 189 6 0
31 Greece 7.62 FN MMGs 191 6 0
31 Greece 7.62 FN MMGs 192 6 0
31 Greece Para MMGs 317 6 0
31 Greece Para MMGs 318 6 0
31 Greece Para MMGs 319 6 0
31 Greece MG3 MMGs 671 6 0
32 Turkey M1919 MMG [2] 371 6 0
32 Turkey MG3 MMG [2] 372 6 0
32 Turkey MG3 MMG [2] 373 6 0
32 Turkey M2HB HMG [2] 374 6 0
32 Turkey M2HB HMG [2] 375 6 0
32 Turkey M2HB HMG [2] 376 6 0
33 Spain 7.92 Alfa MMGs 488 6 0
33 Spain 7.62 Alfa MMGs 489 6 0
33 Spain 7.62mm MG3 MMGs 490 6 0
35 Denmark M48 MMG Section 298 6 0
35 Denmark M48 MMG Section 299 6 0
35 Denmark M62 MMG Section 300 6 0
35 Denmark M62 MMG Section 301 6 0
35 Denmark M62 MMG Section 302 6 0
36 East Germany 7.62mm SGM MMGs 93 6 0
36 East Germany 7.62mm PKM MMGs 94 6 0
37 Czechoslovakia vz.37 MMG [2] 93 6 0
37 Czechoslovakia vz.59 MMG [2] 94 6 0
37 Czechoslovakia vz/59 MMG [2] 213 6 0
37 Czechoslovakia SG-43 MMG [2] 351 6 0
37 Czechoslovakia SG-43 MMG [2] 352 6 0
37 Czechoslovakia SG-43 MMG [2] 475 6 0
37 Czechoslovakia SG-43 MMG [2] 476 6 0
37 Czechoslovakia vz/59 MMG [2] 477 6 0
37 Czechoslovakia vz/59 MMG [2] 478 6 0
38 Hungary KSK MMG [2] 93 6 0
38 Hungary PKMS MMG [2] 94 6 0
38 Hungary PKMS MMG [2] 213 6 0
38 Hungary 8mm 34/M MMG[2] 350 6 0
38 Hungary SG-43 MMG [2] 351 6 0
38 Hungary SG-43 MMG [2] 352 6 0
38 Hungary PKMS MMG [2] 475 6 0
38 Hungary PKMS MMG [2] 476 6 0
39 Romania Vz.37 MMG Sec 92 6 0
39 Romania SGM MMG Section 93 6 0
39 Romania SGM MMG Section 94 6 0
40 Libya .30 M1919 MMGs 196 6 0
40 Libya 7.62mm FN MMGs 197 6 0
40 Libya 7.62mm SGM MMGs 198 6 0
40 Libya 7.62mm PKM MMGs 199 6 0
41 Yugoslavia / Serbia MMG Section 46 6 0
41 Yugoslavia / Serbia MMG Section 47 6 0
41 Yugoslavia / Serbia Para MMG Sec 48 6 0
41 Yugoslavia / Serbia Para MMG Sec 49 6 0
41 Yugoslavia / Serbia Para MMG Sec 50 6 0
41 Yugoslavia / Serbia MMG Section 51 6 0
41 Yugoslavia / Serbia Para MMG Sec 53 6 0
41 Yugoslavia / Serbia Para MMG Sec 54 6 0
42 Green 2x.30in MMGs 455 6 0
42 Green 2x7.62mm MMGs 456 6 0
45 Argentina M1919 .30in MGs 90 6 0
45 Argentina Madsen 7.92 MGs 91 6 0
45 Argentina FN-MAG 7.62 MGs 92 6 0
45 Argentina Abn .30in MMG 486 6 0
45 Argentina Abn FN-MAG MMG 487 6 0
47 Cyprus 7.62 FN-MAGs 206 6 0
48 Brazil .30 Browng MMGs 90 6 0
48 Brazil 7.62mm FN MMGs 91 6 0
48 Brazil 7.62 Uirapuru 92 6 0
49 Cuba .30cal MMGs 70 6 0
49 Cuba 7.62mm PKM MMGs 72 6 0
50 Algeria .30 Brwnng MGs 75 6 0
52 South Africa 2x7.62mm MMGs 66 6 0
52 South Africa 2x7.62mm MMGs 67 6 0
52 South Africa 7.62mm MMG Sec 220 6 0
52 South Africa 7.62mm MMG Sec 221 6 0
53 Switzerland 7.5mm M25 MMGs 93 6 0
53 Switzerland 7.5mm M51 MMGs 95 6 0
53 Switzerland 7.5mm M51 MMGs 96 6 0
53 Switzerland 7.5mm MG51 / 57 110 6 0
53 Switzerland 7.5mm MG51 / 90 111 6 0
53 Switzerland Fsch 12.7 HMG 360 6 0
53 Switzerland Fsch 12.7 HMG 361 6 0
53 Switzerland Fsch MG51 / 57 363 6 0
53 Switzerland Fsch MG51 / 90 364 6 0
53 Switzerland 7.5mm MG71 / 57 746 6 0
53 Switzerland 7.5mm MG71 / 90 747 6 0
54 Thailand MMG Section 170 6 0
54 Thailand MMG Section 171 6 0
55 Albania 7.62mm SGM MMGs 105 6 0
55 Albania 7.62mm PKM MMGs 106 6 0
55 Albania 7.62mm T67 MMGs 107 6 0
56 Angola 7.62mm MG3 MMGs 75 6 0
56 Angola 7.62mm PKM MMGs 76 6 0
56 Angola .30 M1919 MMGs 77 6 0
57 Bosnia-Herzegovina MMG Section 46 6 0
57 Bosnia-Herzegovina LMG Section 47 6 0
57 Bosnia-Herzegovina MMG Section 48 6 0
58 Cambodia .30 cal MMG (2) 408 6 0
58 Cambodia T57 MMG (2) 410 6 0
58 Cambodia PKMS MMG (2) 412 6 0
59 Chile .30 M1919 MMGs 90 6 0
59 Chile 7.62mm FN MMGs 91 6 0
59 Chile 7.92 ZB-53 HMGs 92 6 0
59 Chile 12.7 M2HB HMGs 93 6 0
59 Chile 12.7 M2HB HMGs 94 6 0
60 Croatia MMG Section 46 6 0
60 Croatia LMG Section 47 6 0
60 Croatia MMG Section 51 6 0
60 Croatia Para MMG Sec 54 6 0
60 Croatia MMG Section 62 6 0
61 Nigeria 7.62mm DPM MMGs 75 6 0
61 Nigeria 7.62mm MAG MMGs 76 6 0
61 Nigeria 7.62 HK21 MMGs 77 6 0
62 Chad .30 Brwnng MGs 75 6 0
62 Chad 7.5mm AAT52 MGs 76 6 0
62 Chad 7.62mm SGM MMGs 77 6 0
62 Chad 7.62mm PKM MMGs 78 6 0
62 Chad 7.62mm MAG MMGs 79 6 0
63 Ethiopia .30in MMG (2) 196 6 0
63 Ethiopia 7.62 PKM MG (2) 199 6 0
64 Saudi Arabia 7.62mm FN MMGs 91 6 0
64 Saudi Arabia 7.62mm M60 MMGs 92 6 0
66 Sweden 20mm PvLv m/40 365 6 0
66 Sweden 20mm Lv m/40-70 366 6 0
67 Sudan 7.62mm SGM MMGs 91 6 0
67 Sudan 7.62mm T57 MMGs 92 6 0
67 Sudan 7.62mm MG3 MMGs 93 6 0
67 Sudan 7.62mm M60 MMGs 94 6 0
68 Lebanon 30cal MMG Sec 330 6 0
68 Lebanon 30cal MMG Sec 331 6 0
69 Kenya 7.62mm GPMGs 75 6 0
69 Kenya 7.62mm MAG MMGs 76 6 0
69 Kenya 7.62mm M60 MMGs 77 6 0
71 Indonesia MG Section 91 6 0
71 Indonesia MG Section 92 6 0
71 Indonesia MG Section 93 6 0
71 Indonesia MG Section 94 6 0
71 Indonesia MG Section 95 6 0
71 Indonesia MG Section 96 6 0
71 Indonesia MG Section 576 6 0
71 Indonesia MG Section 577 6 0
71 Indonesia MG Section 578 6 0
71 Indonesia MG Section 579 6 0
71 Indonesia MG Section 580 6 0
72 Viet Cong 7.62mm SGM MMGs 103 6 0
72 Viet Cong 7.62mm T67 MMGs 104 6 0
72 Viet Cong 7.62mm PKM MMGs 105 6 0
72 Viet Cong 7.62mm M60 MMGs 106 6 0
73 Portugal MG-42 MMG Sec 189 6 0
73 Portugal MG3 MMG Section 190 6 0
73 Portugal MG42 MMG Sec 219 6 0
73 Portugal MG3 MMG Section 220 6 0
74 Malaysia GPMG SF Section 87 6 0
74 Malaysia GPMG SF Section 88 6 0
74 Malaysia .30 MMG Section 89 6 0
75 Zimbabwe 7.62mm T67 MMG 42 6 0
75 Zimbabwe 7.62mm M60 MMGs 43 6 0
75 Zimbabwe 7.62 PKMS MMGs 44 6 0
76 South Yemen PKM MMG Sec 96 6 0
77 North Yemen 7.62mm SGM MMGs 91 6 0
77 North Yemen 7.62mm PKM MMGs 92 6 0
78 Eritrea 7.62mm SGM MMGs 76 6 0
78 Eritrea 7.62mm PKM MMGs 77 6 0
81 Mozambique 7.62 SG43 MMGs 62 6 0
81 Mozambique 7.62 vz.59 MMGs 63 6 0
82 Ecuador .30 Brwng MMGs 90 6 0
82 Ecuador FN-MAG 7.62 MGs 91 6 0
82 Ecuador Uirapuru 7.62s 92 6 0
83 El Salvador .30 M1919 MMGs 90 6 0
83 El Salvador FN-MAG 7.62 MGs 91 6 0
84 Nicaragua .30 M1919 MMGs 90 6 0
84 Nicaragua FN-MAG 7.62 MGs 91 6 0
84 Nicaragua Uirapuru 7.62mm 92 6 0
85 Peru Vz.37 MMGs 89 6 0
85 Peru .30 M1919 MMGs 90 6 0
85 Peru 7.62mm M60 MMGs 91 6 0
85 Peru 7.62 FN-MAG MGs 92 6 0
87 Bulgaria Vz.37 MMG Sec 294 6 0
87 Bulgaria SGM MMG Section 295 6 0
87 Bulgaria 7.62mm SGM MMGs 296 6 0
87 Bulgaria 7.62mm SGM MMGs 297 6 0
88 Somalia .30 cal MMG (2) 75 6 0
88 Somalia 7.62mm MMG (2) 76 6 0
89 Tanzania .303 Bren LMGs 72 6 0
89 Tanzania 7.62mm DPM LMGs 73 6 0
89 Tanzania 7.62mm RPD LMGs 74 6 0
89 Tanzania 7.62mm T80 LMGs 75 6 0
89 Tanzania 7.62mm MAG MMGs 76 6 0
89 Tanzania 7.62 SG43 MMGs 77 6 0
90 Uganda 7.62mm M60 MMGs 75 6 0
90 Uganda 7.62mm MAG MMGs 76 6 0
90 Uganda 7.62mm PKM MMGs 77 6 0
91 Uruguay .30in MMGs 133 6 0
91 Uruguay FN-MAG MMGs 134 6 0
91 Uruguay FN-MAG LMGs 135 6 0
92 Paraguay M1919 .30in MGs 90 6 0
92 Paraguay Uirapuru MGs 91 6 0

[DRG]

Originally Posted by Imp

Units 783 784 MMG 3 man team lugging 2 MMGs...

As noted this is now on the list to investigate but it's a bit of tangle involving 9 formations some of which probably should be using a 2 MG 6 man unit and some perhaps should be using a 1 MG 3 man unit but yes, 3 men should not be lugging 2 MG's and a quick look at a list of MG units with 3 men all the ones I've found are single MG's but I need to write a specialized SQL script to know for sure but this will get fixed up for next year one way or the other


Don

[Imp]

Okay well I have just had a quick look & it always used to be
I MG = size 0
2, 3 MGs =size 1

In MBT some do indeed seem tohave changed, British 2MG units for example but the Chinese still follow the old format.

In WW2 Germany & Russia still follow the old format & its easy to see in the German one as both single & double MG units are listed in the same formation.

On USA size zero units I cant remember but I think there may still be the odd Vietnam era patrol of 6 men that is size zero.
With Bradleys unless go the none AT option & size 6 squad you get an ATGM team & a 4man squad which is size zero.
I realise its a 4 man team so could qualify for size zero & certainly would as a scout but this means unless some other infantry squads are around your fighting nearly all size 0 infantry units with level 80 experience.
Very hard for the poor AI to even find a foot target.
Also Panzer Grenadiers could be represented the same way splitting into a small squad & ATGM team & getting size zero for both units instead of size one for the single unit.

Maybe its differences in training but to me the USA not only gets the flexibility of 2 separate units but gets both at size zero.
I admit that I would guess there roll is to protect the Bradley & help be its eyes rather than get into fire fights.
So an armoured formation supported by Bradleys has serious AT capability & no size 1 units unless some engineers or regular infantry come along for the fun effectively making every infantry unit a scout.

[Imp]

In MBT some do indeed seem tohave changed, British 2MG units for example but the Chinese still follow the old format

Ignore this bit indeed Chinese seem to have some changes to, only jumped around OOBs not serious look as I want to give the new patch a test run.
If you decided 6 men or less MG units warrant size 0 in MBT fair enough.
Just used to 1MG is stealthy while 2 are not

[DRG]

[quote=Imp;819196]

If you decided 6 men or less MG units warrant size 0 in MBT fair enough.
Just used to 1MG is stealthy while 2 are not

Looking deeper into this there is a variance to the way MBT and WW2 is set up. In MBT the line for size zero MG units is six men. In WW2 the line is 5.

Now..... it is CONSISTANTLY applied that way t all OOB's but yes, there is a difference between MBT and WW2.

I've marked this for "Review"


Don