artillery delay for small mortars

[Mario_Fr]

What do you think about decreasing artillery delay for small mortars (up to 60mm)? Right now, depending on experience it`s 3.4 to 1.2 (for 80 or more experience). But it means that even the British or Americans have usually to wait 3 turns which makes small mortars quite useless. Why not change that to 1.5 for unexperienced and 0.5 for better crews (and FO`s) since they could set up and shoot very quickly.

Mario

[Pfor]

Rather than mess with the 'indirect fire' mechanism, I would make the 'direct fire' option more attractive. From what I have read, the most usual FO for these mortars was the mortar's own squad leader, from a vantage point within 100m, using hand signals.

What if the light mortar had a Line of Sight calculated from the hex immediately in front of it?

This could allow the mortar itself to stay in cover yet still 'see' its target. Obviously, this hex would be fixed for the entire move, based on its direction at the start of the turn (i.e. no such benefit if rotated), since there weren't enough spare crewmen to place one in each of the adjacent six hexes. For simplicity, the spotter of course would never ever be spotted!

[Imp]

Originally Posted by Pfor

Rather than mess with the 'indirect fire' mechanism, I would make the 'direct fire' option more attractive. From what I have read, the most usual FO for these mortars was the mortar's own squad leader, from a vantage point within 100m, using hand signals.

What if the light mortar had a Line of Sight calculated from the hex immediately in front of it?

This could allow the mortar itself to stay in cover yet still 'see' its target. Obviously, this hex would be fixed for the entire move, based on its direction at the start of the turn (i.e. no such benefit if rotated), since there weren't enough spare crewmen to place one in each of the adjacent six hexes. For simplicity, the spotter of course would never ever be spotted!

If you have the mortar in a suitable position for that you most likely have it in a position where it can z fire on the target hex or one near to it. So Z fire & then walk it on using the bombard screen with minimal delay.

[Pfor]

Yikes! I would never have made this association between Z-fire and the bombard screen. I like it!

It's like the 'spotter' already exists, wherever and whenever he is needed - just not very good at his job, z-fire and unobserved indirect fire being what it is, accuracy-wise.

Two limitations:

a) when there isn't a suitable 'start-point' for z-fire walking;


b) accuracy - a direct fire option allows single round accurate fire whereas the follow-up to the z-fire barrage would be unobserved mandatory multi-shot - perfect for artillery and mortar platoon fires for effect, but single light mortars attached to rifle platoons ... not so much?

This game never ceases to amaze!

[georgesedlak]

New to me too, what else do you have in your bag of tricks John?

[gila]

[quote=Imp;818011]

Originally Posted by Pfor

If you have the mortar in a suitable position for that you most likely have it in a position where it can z fire on the target hex or one near to it. So Z fire & then walk it on using the bombard screen with minimal delay.

I've always thought once you've direct fire any arty they don't show up on the bombard screen for that turn.
To be honest, don't recall using many z-fired arty,don't know why it should be any different than DF.
Plotting takes calculations and time,so how should using erratic z-fire take less delay on next bombard?
If this really does work as described,then i'm really missing something.

[gila]

Originally Posted by Mario_Fr

What do you think about decreasing artillery delay for small mortars (up to 60mm)? Right now, depending on experience it`s 3.4 to 1.2 (for 80 or more experience). But it means that even the British or Americans have usually to wait 3 turns which makes small mortars quite useless. Why not change that to 1.5 for unexperienced and 0.5 for better crews (and FO`s) since they could set up and shoot very quickly.

Mario

Yep,
I agree small mortars (60 mm and under) should be able to move and shoot which they are limted.
That's what they are meant for DF
Japanese inftry small mortars for example.
IMO small mortars bombard should only be called from the company leader they are from,but that's another can of worms.

[AMX]

Originally Posted by gila

Plotting takes calculations and time,so how should using erratic z-fire take less delay on next bombard?

Because it lets you skip the calculations - the gun is already laid correctly.

[Imp]

Originally Posted by gila

Yep,
I agree small mortars (60 mm and under) should be able to move and shoot which they are limted.
That's what they are meant for DF
Japanese inftry small mortars for example.
IMO small mortars bombard should only be called from the company leader they are from,but that's another can of worms.

There are a lot of small mortars that can move & shoot, they are carried by squads & are great for supporting fire vs clustered troops. If they have decent range also handy vs MGs ATGs & ATGMs to help suppress.
Crewed small mortars are just like any other mortar but much more likely to have a LOS to the target hex due to closer proximity & the Z fire trick can assume they are better aware of the company needs & hence can lay down fire quicker in the general area.
If the situation permits I bring up SP mortars on the odd occasion so they have eyeballs on the target.
If you need cover fast a small mortar & hence high ROF with LOS can place quite a smoke screen on the turn after its moved by direct firing.
More control we do not need.

[Pfor]

In the early fifties, the USA changed their field manuals (and thus official doctrine) to reflect the 'reality' that their 60-mm mortars were normally attached one to a platoon, and as I mentioned before the mortar sguad leader was usually the one direcing its fire. Later, the light mortar role was taken over by the M79 and M203 type grenade launchers. These grenade launchers were basically designed to bridge the gap between hand grenades and real(?) mortars.

IMHO, the current game does not with sufficient accuracy allow the light mortar to basically lob explosives into that little hollow 150m to the left that the machine guns can't reach.

To my mind, this cries out for light mortars to have some unique characteristic(s). So, how about:
1. Redefine light mortars as 'direct fire', so that scads of them are not firing all over the map or cluttering up the bombard screen;
2. Tweak their LOS calcs somehow, to 'see' through protective terrain immediately in front of them;
3. Tweak their Target calcs somehow, to allow direct fire or more dependable z-fire on eligible hexes currently off limits to direct fire weapons;
4. Permit some fire and movement in the same turn.