Change In Visibility

[Warmonger]

See attached save file.

A Unit View for the unit in hex 49,24 shows an intermittent pattern of hexes (every third hex) to the SE. All visible hexes there are level 0, clear. The hexes around the visible hexes are also level 0, clear. So why aren't they visible as well? There was no action in that part of the map so there shouldn't be any micro-smoke affecting visibility.

[Imp]

I downloaded the 2nd one first as I thought the answer to the first would be obvious, it received multiple fires & hence had dust created around it but here is what I see.

Case 1
Err okay the hex it was on & the hex it routed to are woods with high grass.
Guess what pretty hard to see through in real life I would say the slightest instance of dust would effect as in block any view through them. Though its hard to see what you are on about as in the save & replay I cant the unit supposedly fired at in hex 57,25.

Case 2
Wow your taking the piss right?
The trees in hexes 50,24 & 50, 25 allow sight through them.
Looking through both however blocks vision through them, lots of trees now.
So all the unit can see where you are talking about is whats visible through the 50, 25 hex.
Take a ruler or a piece of string stick it on your monitor running from the hex centre & viola you can see the hex centres shown.

Sure you said did programing & debugging so you have got to know there is nothing as annoying as getting bad reporting or the person having no idea about the mechanics of the program.
At the risk of getting banned stop wasting everybodys time, several hours so far & go learn how to play the game before trying to take it apart. I mean come on how basic was the LOS in the second example thats basic LOS mechanics. Made me think you either really havent grasped the basics of this game or you are just flaming.
So please learn the game & let the designers get on with just that they are good at it instead of wasting their time looking at stuff that works just fine.

[DRG]

In this case if the trees in 50,25 were removed you would see a two to three hex wide swath of ground all the way to the road and if you added a different set of trees to that hex you wouldn't see anything beyond the trees in probably 99 cases in 100 but this set in that location on that map the game has allowed limited LOS and because the LOS isn't good enough to "light up" a solid line of hexes the game has given this because there is no way , from that angle, with the limitations of hexes, to "connect the dots". If the sighting unit was in hex 48,25 looking "east" a solid line of hexes would be visible as being in LOS but being in 49,24 looking at that angle that's all the game will give you BECAUSE the LOS though that set of trees is allowing a glimpse of terrain beyond them .

The bottom line is the hex grid is the limiting factor here. There is not enough LOS though the trees to justify anything but a single line of hexes visible from that position but there is no way to string together a single line of hexes with LOS from the viewing unit to the road without creating a crazy zig zag of hexes that go beyond the allowed LOS so it skips.


Don

[Mobhack]

As DRG says.

The LOS code has not changed since the SSI original Steel Panthers game back in the 90s. Ditto for micro smoke. There has been no need to fiddle with such fundamental code whatsoever. It works for a hex-based universe.

So SP uses it, we use it and presumably WoW (which I believe you said you have played for years) also uses that basic unchanged piece of code.

So I am wondering how you have just managed to find out that there are "edge" conditions when a unit is fired on, is suppressed, especially around cover such as trees and buildings or down draws such as streams and roads through woods.

It is entirely possible for an enemy unit to have an LOS to you but for your unit not to be able to trace one back to him on the extreme edge of an LOS fan - he may be more experienced and less suppressed, or have moved less hexes etc. so he can see that little bit better that you. Or in MBT, he may have better night vision gear than your unit (less of a factor in WW2).

Any new smoke added to the map from bombardments or exchanges of direct fire or burning bits of foliage or wrecked vehicles will dynamically change the LOS while it lasts.

So absolutely nothing new here, its been that way since the 1990s in all games using the SP engine.

Andy

[Warmonger]

Interesting. In WAW I never encountered the situation where a unit lost sighting of a target during a turn, that's why I thought there was a problem. I don't know if it's just luck or if they disabled the micro-smoke logic.

Anyway, thanks for the info.

[gila]

Originally Posted by Warmonger

Interesting. In WAW I never encountered the situation where a unit lost sighting of a target during a turn, that's why I thought there was a problem. I don't know if it's just luck or if they disabled the micro-smoke logic.

I think you are trying to compare two totally different games to each other,yes they are simular but very different on many important points too many to decribe here.

Here's what you should do,,forget what you learned on WaW, and focus on learning the SPWW2 way,b/c otherwise you are just going to confuse yourself and make nonexistant problem reports.

[gila]

@warmonger

You seem to have so many petty issues with SPWW2.

I'd have too also agree with Imp, this is getting to borderline flaming,or peristant whining.

You can make your choice,like it or leave it

[jivemi]

Hmmm. In my limited experience, there've been a number of times LOS/LOF didn't correspond to the terrain. The most egregious example occurred when a railway embankment at higher elevation intervened between units at lower elevation, yet they were still able to direct fire on each other. Funny thing was, when I moved my unit onto the embankment (getting a little closer to gain advantage from the enemy's suppression), the LOS no longer existed! This situation may have been fixed with the v5.0 patch; unfortunately, I can't remember the scenario to check it out.

[Warmonger]

We can add another anomaly to the list. Blockhouses and pillboxes don't block LOS despite being substantial structures (at least according to the photos included in the game). Perhaps it's because they're considered to be units.

[Mobhack]

A) they are units, not terrain

B) some are big and stand out, others are sunk into the landscape (photos are simply for illustration). Size is important - but vehicles are not big enough to block LOS and forts are simply a species of immobile vehicle.

C) None of them are 50 metres by 50 metres, remember that a hex is half a football pitch.

If a scenario designer wants a super-large "fortress" of the Krak des Chevaliers type, then he can raise the terrain height or use other scenario map editing tricks.

Andy