17/25 Pdr ATk Gun ‘Pheasant’

[Cross]

In SP the 17 Pounder ATk gun becomes available in Sept 1943, which may be about the right for the Mk I on Mk I carriage, but one hundred 17 Pounders (hastily mounted on 25 Pdr carriages) were rushed to North Africa in early 1943, and saw action in Feb or March 1943.

These ad hoc guns were called “Pheasants”.

Apparently these guns went on to serve in Sicily and Italy. But I also read that their rate-of-fire was lower than the regular 17 Pounders.

Do you think we should have 17/25 Pdr Pheasants in the British OOB; and if so perhaps they should have a lower RoF than the regular 17 Pdrs?





17-pdr Mk 1, design of this 3-inch gun started in early 1941 and deliveries started, covertly, to N Africa at the beginning of 1943. The first 100 guns were mounted on 25-pdr carriages and called carriage 17-pdr Mk 2.
http://nigelef.tripod.com/anti-tank.htm

The Anti-tank Regiment also underwent numerous modifications. From early 1943 it had thirty two towed 6-pdr and sixteen towed 17-pdr guns.
http://<br /> http://www.bayonetstr...0to%201945.htm


A prototype production line was set up that spring, and with the appearance of Tiger I tanks in North Africa, the first 100 prototype 17-pdr anti-tank guns were quickly sent off to help counter this new threat. So great was the rush that they were sent before proper carriages had been developed, and the guns had to be mounted in the carriages of 25-pounder gun-howitzers. These early weapons were known as 25/17-pounders and given the codename Pheasant. They first saw action in February 1943.
http://anonymous-generaltopics.blogs...7-pounder.html

Royal Ordnance factories received an order for 100 prototype guns and a small production line was set up. But with the appearance of the German Tiger tank in the Fall of 1942, -efforts were speeded up. As the gun was ready before the carriage, the first weapons were mounted on the 25 Pounder carriages. These entered service in North Africa in February 1943.
http://www.perthmilitarymodelling.co...o/cb35024.html

In response to the appearance of Tiger I’s in Tunisia, 100 17 Pdr guns were flown to North Africa and mounted on 25 Pdr field gun carriages. They first saw action during the Medinine battles in March 1943. Surprisingly, the somewhat worn out field gun carriages held up amazingly well to the additional pounding of an AT gun.
http://www.missing-lynx.com/gallery/...pmpheasant.htm


Cross

[Cross]

Here's some better photos of the Pheasant:

You can click on the photos to enlarge them











Here's a claim that it went to Africa in late 1942. But even if this were true, it sounds like they first saw action in Feb/March 1943.

Prior to the appearance of the first tigers in the African theater, an interim 17pdr was contrived by placing the gun on the existing 25pdr carriage. To the surprise of everyone it all held together when fired and these weapons were rushed to Africa in late 1942 in time to meet the tiger head on. The black and white photo that depicts the rear of the 17pdr above is in fact one of these early Mk I guns on the 25pdr mounting.
http://www.hypospace.net/equipment/AT%20Guns.htm


Here's the regular 17Pdr with Mk I 'split' carriage:








Cross

[DRG]

Did you miss seeing Unit 403 or that the formations that use it start 2/43 or that it already comes with it's own unique photo and Icon ?

It's been in the OOB's for at least 4 years

Don

[Cross]

Originally Posted by DRG

Did you miss seeing Unit 403 or that the formations that use it start 2/43 or that it already comes with it's own unique photo and Icon ?

It's been in the OOB's for at least 4 years

Don

LOL, yes somehow I did miss that.

The icons even show the clear difference between the carriages, thank you.





Cross

[JohnHale]

Some nice background info there, Cross.

[Cross]

Originally Posted by JohnHale

Some nice background info there, Cross.

Yeah, I love to read WWII history of all sorts, and the some of the equipment history is interesting.

Despite the rush to get the 17 Pdr to North Africa, I believe it was the 6Pdr that had the first successes against the Tiger. And I would guess that 100 17 Pdrs probably didn't make much of difference at that late stage in the campaign.


Cross

[Cross]

While on the subject of British ATk guns, can anyone shed any light on the 47mm ATk guns in the British OOB?

Units:
578
579

It may also appear on the Marmington AC unit 610

The picture and description appears to be of the Austrian (built by Italy under license) 47mm L32 Mk 35

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannone_da_47/32_M35

I wonder if they’re supposed to be 37mm Bofors ATk guns (aka. Ordnance Q.F. 37 mm Mk 1) which were used by the BA in North Africa?

http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.a.pat...partillery.htm

The nice thing about the Italian 47mm, and 37mm Bofors, is that they actually fired HE rounds, a shortcoming of the 2 Pdr.


Cross

[DRG]

It's captured Italian 47L32 M.35 which is why it's named 47mm L32 Mk.35 in the British OOB

Don

[Cross]

That explains it.

I guess I was confused because I thought captured equipment was listed as "captured". But I guess that isn't always the case.

Thanks,
Cross

[DRG]

The only thing listed as captured in the Brit OOB are mortars and that's only becasue we have an abundance of Mortar classes.



Don