Patch Post #3 Part 1 & 2 and last for the 2010 Input Campaign. Maintaining "number" item order for topics continued from last two Patch posts on topics previously covered. Again using fielded dates for these units. End dates are 2020 unless otherwise noted. All post references unless otherwise noted, are within the subject discussed below.
In many ways this is more of a "living document" you'll see breaks where I've stopped and started, and information has changed within even a span of a day or less, but this is to be as accurate as possible and to give Don the best info possible to make his decision on a particular item getting in, put off pending further info or not getting in at all. To make my case stronger I was aggressive in trying to find units to be deleted, as trade offs to getting something in, and to clear out some of the last of the developmental units or programs that never came to be fielded for one reason or another. Also in the Helo area I went for economy in providing an all around solution to meet all threats in the field and keep them flying throughout by use of ammo resources within the game. This avoids having 3 or versions of the same helos, we're just running out of slots too fast, and as long as Don and Andy can keep this going, we're still looking at 8 to 9 yrs. worth of patches before we've reached the end of this game. Helos is one area, planes are a little tougher and as are tanks but their might be room for some economy there as well. Other areas develop much slower and are better managed for the foreseeable future. What I see for this is priority to deletions, changes, mods and if time allows the additions this is more then fair as I know where the boss(es) are in the patch. So for next year; deal with left over units that didn't get in, get answers I have to
questions of implementation for AC-130U SPOOKY, B-52, A-10 and APACHE that have had major electronic upgrades recently, my refs are ready and have been. Also looking at ARMA 4x4, MATADOR that just recently had buyers and TEJAS, these all will lead off the 2011 Input Campaign. Finally to Don for allowing me to finish this and to everyone (And some know who you are.) that have supported my efforts, provided advice and kept "my head in the game", and most importantly to those that have taken the time out of their busy days too read what I've posted.
THANKS! Don I'll answer questions dealing with this list as needed on this thread. Submitting this as parts 1 through 3 for picture management and character issues.
MBT's AGAIN!?!
Don might have to rethink the MBT Item A6:
CANADA/NOV 2010/LEOPARD 2A4M/RESET/Came across this article on 6 DEC 2010. The Leopard 2A6M tanks Canada leased from Germany are being returned (Now) after all. This might change the complexion of the Q&A discussions we had concerning this issue. This was on the first patch page submitted.
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news102921.html The last line says it all where things are headed, but that's for next year I would think.
UPDATE ALERT 12/07/10! I went back to the Canadian source I put in Post #21 of this thread. But I also want to draw your attention to Post #22. Here are the two points gleamed from this source.
1. Keep the LEOPARD 2A6M: 40 of the 100 Dutch tanks will be RESET to this standard therefore the return to Germany of the 2A6M tanks is a wash. 20-40 will be upgraded to 2A4M standard above what they got from the Germans. The rest will fall into utility conversions.
2. Might have to reconsider adding the 2A4M as it does have the 120mm SB L44 vice the L55 gun as I thought in Post#22. So we're left with a LEO 2A4M with the protection level of a LEO 2A6M with an improved 120mm L44 main gun.
http://casr.ca/doc-news-kmw-leopard-2a4m.htm Para 1 will also link you to the Dutch tank deal within the site if desired.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...-canada-03208/
C10.
Change: UKRAINE/OPLOT/UNITS 061-063/Add 9K119M REFLEX (NATO Des. AT-11 SNIPER-B) 6 Missiles. Noticed from refs that ATGW load has no affect on conventional ammo loads from refs. Must be due to size that addition of these doesn’t take up that much room as compared to conventional rounds. Am under the impression from further looking into other countries platforms this is just about a "universal truth" across the board.
http://www.morozov.com.ua/eng/body/t84armament.php
http://www.pmulcahy.com/tanks/ukrainian_tanks.html See bottom of the page. And yes I saw the number if it is 100% correct, however six works as that's what's in the game now for the T-84 tanks as well. Changing the number to 5 missiles would not only affect the Ukrainian tanks but would spill over to Russian ones (T-80 and
T-90 series.) as well and any one who uses them outside the Ukraine and Russia that has the ATGW. I say
Das Vydonia to a couple of rolls of toilet paper and keep the six packs instead!
APC Development...Continued.
M1.
MOD: TURKEY/ACV-S IFV 30/JAN 2008/C3 P1O/30mm w/800Rds & Coax 7.62mm w/2.2KRds./ Originally when I entered this I thought to put it in as an "Add", however after thinking about it for a few days I've changed it to a "Mod" because the refs though from solid sources leave me with some doubt as to them serving with Turkey even after watching a FNSS production line video of them being built. I might be conservative here but my confidence level is at 85%+ that Turkey has them. This applies too M2 below as well.
M2.
MOD: TURKEY/ACV-S IFV 25 ATGW/JAN 2008/C3 P10/25mm w/900Rds & Coax 7.62mm w/2.2KRds also 8 TOW B ATGW/ As noted above.
A12.
ADD: SAUDI ARABIA/ACV-S IFV 30/JUN 2007/C3 P10/30mm w/800Rds & Coax 7.62mm w/2.2KRds/ This is definite though it was only a small order of 10 - 20 units.
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning21.html Even within the Turkish Army these represent only a total of about 200 out of 2,200 that were converted from the M113A units Turkey has. I would feel these would've been "up protected" as shown by this ref. A12 was done so without a doubt against 30mm Rds with Spall liners.
http://www2.ssm.gov.tr/katalog2007/d...uruning16.html ACV-S IFV 30 and 25 ATGW variants.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/24806...nce+industries
Pic:
A13.
ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR 12.7/JUN 2012/C2 P9/RO 12.7mm w/1.5KRds/ These APCs are to replace the aging fleet of the EE-11 Erutu class APCs developed in the mid 70's. Will address some of the types to be fielded here. Brazil will be buying these in the top of the line configuration for all types at the 30mm protection level, fully amphibious (There's a no brainier look at the geography.) and with all the bells and whistles in the sensor and targeting department this is to include the UT-30 turret and others. Brazil’s economy is the fastest growing one in the western hemisphere and in the top five in the world. They are also sitting on well over of a trillion dollars worth of new oil off the coast making it the second largest oil field in the world (Ref. 60 Minutes.), you can afford to modernize especially when your neighbor is getting billions in military aid from Russia. Will try to track down actual Brazilian name for the type (They like using names of snakes.) but, will improvise name with weapon type carried for now to get these in as this is a done deal. All refs will be added at the end.
A14.
ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR UT30/JUN 2012/C2 P9/RO UT-30 30mm w/250KRds & Coax 7.62mm w/1KRds/ This is a highly versatile turret developed by ELBIT Systems. Per the refs this turret has no affect on crew or carry as most systems similar to this also have none as well. Ref. for this turret provided here also to include an excellent article on APC turrets as well.
A15.
ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR UT-30AT/JUN 2012/C2 P9/RO UT-30 30mm w/250Rds w/Coax 7.62mm w/1KRds and 4 SPIKE ATGW/ The Brazilian Marines are to get this weapons version also, as well as the Army with the following exception, the Marine VBTP-MR UT-30AT will be an 8x8, increase carry to C12 for the Marine 8x8 and this could be low, also again as with all types it'll be fully amphibious.
http://elbitsystems.com/Elbitmain/files/UT30.PDF Again this is being bought fully equipped and protected. Adjust size as needed as set by your system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-4a8ODHNbuA A short video 1:41 in length worth watching and it might help in modeling it.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/article/article_2059.html This and the next deal with the contract awarded for the UT-30 RO turrets.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/21010/
And as I did with
Malaysia’s ADNAN, I will include the SP mortar units here as well as follows:
A16.
ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR 81M/JUN 2012/C4/81mm w/114Rds & RO 12.7mm w/2KRds.
A17.
ADD: BRAZIL/VBTP-MR 120M/JUN 2012/C5/120mm w/70Rds & RO 12.7mm w/2KRds.
http://www.defense-update.com/produc...mr_130409.html
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/475/
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/ivecovbtpmr/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/vbtp_mr.htm
http://www.armyrecognition.com/brazi...mation_uk.html
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product4269.html
Pic:
After a delay of a couple of years, Sweden will finally get its PATRIA AMV's. As a reminder I'm only interested in when units are fielded (or operationally assigned to units etc.), so yes I noted that deliveries of the first batch of AMV's will be completed near years end 2013 however, do take note it also states they will be operational by early 2014. As much of this was in the works before the court challenges and allowing for Swedish efficiencies that's why I'm recommending JAN 2014 which I have on good authority is well within the 6 month "swag (or wag)" of not changing dates. This was just a reminder for those "newer to the site".
A18.
ADD: SWEDEN/AMV APC/JAN 2014/C2 P10/RO PML 127 OWS 12.7mm turret w/2.5KRds.
A19.
ADD: SWEDEN/AMV IFV/JAN 2014/C3 P9/LAV 30 turret w/ATK BUSHMASTER 30mm w/175 Rds & coax 7.62mm w/2KRds./
A20.
ADD: SWEDEN/AMV ATGW/JAN 2014/C3 P8/ LAV 30 turret w/ATK BUSHMASTER 30mm w/175 Rds & coax 7.62mm w/2KRds. and 8 TOW ATGW/
As with the VBTP-MR 81mm & 120mm above will list the AMV AMOS below as the AMV is a new platform for Sweden. All will be transferred to the SPA/SPAA section further on to keep things in order.
A21.
ADD: SWEDEN/AMV ATMOS/JAN 2014/C3/AMOS Twin Barreled Turreted 120mm Mortar w/56Rds (Split the difference of 50-60Rds.), 12.7mm w/1.2KRds & 7.62mm w/2KRds.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2220.html About the
LAV-30 Turret.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product2219.html About the LAV-30 TOW Turret.
http://www.gdls.com/classic/systems/lav30-tow.html About the LAV-30 TOW Turret from the manufacturer.
http://www.army-guide.com/eng/product665.html About the BUSHMASTER II.
http://www.military-today.com/artillery/amos.htm
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...led-APC-05579/ First article that covers the whole project etc.
http://www.army-technology.com/projects/patria/
http://www.military-today.com/apc/patria_amv.htm
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20055/ Legal.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20707/ Legal.
Pic:
M3.
MOD: USA/BRADLEY/JAN 2011/UNITS 006, 305-306, 309, 655, 664, 666 (Yikes!) & 668/ As in the game add a new tech ERA/ARA package and upgrades below.
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...835/#more-2835 Please note APR 06 '09 & SEP 22 '08 as these affect the above units. Others in the game were out of service by 2008 - 2009. But the big issue here is the ARA protection and "belly steel" for IED protection (I don't know what their 0 - 6 protection level is.).
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...updated-02451/ This is one of those seek peek articles but gets what you need though, and it is definitely one of the most advanced and new ERA/ARA packages out there.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20012/ This covers the ERA upgrade.
Pic:
M4.
MOD: ISRAEL/NAMER/JUN 2011/UNITS 087 & 088/ As in the game add HITFIST APS with 4 shots (From 2 launchers.) Similar to the TROPHY system it has been developed by the IDF for its APCs. Of note is the fact that it has been tested by the U.S. Army this past fall as well. With the NAMER to be manufactured in the U.S. soon, I won't think it too long before we see these systems on our armor as well. Not unusual between the two allies as Israel was the only country to be considered to get the AH-X (See HELO section.) outside the U.S. had the program succeeded.
http://defense-update.com/features/2...ps_090609.html
http://defense-update.com/wp/2010092..._fist_osd.html This also covers the U.S. test.
http://www.defense-update.com/featur...09062010.html# In the 3rd Para. discussing IRON FIST is where it mentions the two twin launchers to be mounted on the NAMER.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php...94&c=FEA&s=SPE Discusses how the TROPHY and IRON FIST systems work at bottom.
http://www.prlog.org/10258921-idf-se...heavy-apc.html
Pic:
DELETE: USMC/EFV/UNIT 189/ Was the USMC program cut by the SECDEF on 06 Jan. 2011 in an effort to reduce the defense budget by now 80 - 90 Billion dollars btwn now and FY 2016. The CORPS will reconsider its AMPHIB options, this again as the EFV gets cancelled on the 40th anniversary of their current ones. I will provide posts for this as it was just recently done last week.
Posts: Page 9; #83, #85 & #86.
This is a bonus that was helpful with some of the above.
[url]http://www.defence.pk/forums/military-forum/68973-briefing-stick-your-guns.html[/url] This would be an excellent source to check against APCs current in the game or for you game designers. The article is legitimate from Jane’s as I've read from the author and have read a small portion of it from the "free view" section. Nice that somebody can afford the subscription price!?! Well CINCLANTHOME wouldn't authorize the expenditure anyway.
MRAPS and a couple...
A1.
ADD: ROMANIA/MAXXPRO DASH/JAN 2011/C3 (Including gunner.)
P6/Turreted 12.7mm w/2KRds/ They will receive 60 units on loan from the U.S., 20 of which are brand new with 40 refurbished and upgraded to meet the newer specs of units now operating in theater by the U.S. These are the better protected more maneuverable U.S. versions since initially deployed in
2007. Expect Romania to keep these as a "thank you" for serving with the coalition. First units were delivered in Oct 2010 (8) they should have most by now and be trained in their use as well that's why JAN 2011.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/18551/
http://www.janes.com/articles/Janes-...ghanistan.html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...avistar-03344/
http://www.army-technology.com/proje...ash/specs.html
A2.
ADD: NIGERIA & UN/GILA/JAN 2008/C2 P10/Turreted 12.7mm UKN Rds & RM 7.62mm UKN Rds./As noted by the post this again is a CASSPRI on steroids with, much better all around armor protection and mobility. DENAL in fact this past summer has just released the new CASSPIR 4 to compete against the GILA. Also the company website lists that seven countries operate the GILA if I use the AU countries that have supplied troops to DARFUR they would be Cameroon, Egypt, Ethiopia, Malawi, Nigeria, Rwanda, Senegal, Tanzania and Uganda. Though on the post I gave my best guess (Angola and Kenya had troops there at the time of the refs as posted.) of who else has them I can't find anything concrete on them or of any listed above except Nigeria. Only Senegal "reappears" from the first post to now. Nigeria and UN (Canada selected these over the CASSPIR and others in the procurement process for UNADIM.) are the only ones I can say I'm sure of.
Post: Page 8; #75 for pictures as well.
A3.
ADD: UK/OCELOT/JUN 2011/P6/RM 12.7mm w/2KRds/The problem here is that a team of six get to and fight from this vehicle, there is no crew per say, I don't know how you can make this work? Won the UK MOD completion in the LPPV program beating out the Supacat SPV 400.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/20095/
http://www.army-technology.com/news/news103743.html
Posts: Page 7; #68, Page 8; #79 and Page 9; #84 for pictures as well.
TRANSPORT FOR U.S. ...UPDATE!
D1.
DELETE: ITALY/MEADS/UNIT 182/The reason for deletion is that the MEADS is about 4 - 5 years out from being fielded providing there are no delays in testing and as follows. This program is under so much pressure that if any one of the three legs holding this up falters (U.S. 58%, Germany 25% & Italy 17% of funding.) this program is probably done. As I noted in the "JET..." thread it was not mentioned in the JAN 06, 2011 speech by SECDEF Gates as one of the programs to be cut, also no news out of the other two partners of any move thus far to do likewise with their defense budgets even though they are making major cuts as well in defense spending. Lockheed Martin is also pushing hard against it (MEADS) as well with the major success seen in the PATRIOT (Upgrade.) PAC 3 missile. But this could survive all because of the cancellation guarantees that could run into the 100's of millions of dollars at the point of termination in development. It should be noted however that the program has been very successful to date. This will allow for a mobile platform to be properly modeled as this is NOT a static system! Also each mobile launcher will have a dedicated ammo unit paired with it, and will actually be bought as a unit in this manner such as the ARCHER SPA System and the USA with PALIDAN.
[url]http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/FMTV-2010-2015-Oshkosh-Wins-The-Re-Compete-05744/#more-5744[/url] FMTV based on this to be the new launcher, supply and component platform.
http://www.olive-drab.com/idphoto/id_photos_fmtv.php
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...KEYWORDS=meads
http://www.reuters.com/article/idCNN2726097420101027
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/...s-0639/#conops
Posts: Page 1; #6 & #7, Page 2; #11, #12, #15, #17 & #18.
Pic:
D2.
DELETE: USA & USMC/HUMRAAM/UNITS 816 & 513 Respectively/Program cancelled on 06 Jan. 2011 by SECDEF Gates.
http://www.defpro.com/daily/details/...5f3882e1791d50 SECDEF Gates kills SLAMRAAM & EFV etc.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...1f966&_cview=0 Dated: 02 Sep. 2010 @ 1041. This is to show how long ago and fast a program dies. This document is the final solicitation notice to incorporate the FMTV as the launcher platform and complete the testing to final system operational demonstration of SLAMRAAM as it goes into low rate production.
https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...1415a&_cview=0 Dead. Dated: 22 Sep. 2010 @ 0909.
Posts: Page 2; #16 & #20.
S-400 TRIUMF Page 4 TO&EsC1.
C1.
CHANGE: RUSSIA/S-400 TRIUMF/UNIT 295/Fielded date to JAN 2010 vice JAN 2007/This program suffered from delays as well and I suspect was entered based on developmental data. This is mounted on a mobile platform as well as it should be. Will transfer this info to the SPA/SPAA thread when done here.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ssia/s-400.htm As of 2007 it was not deployed due to technical issues. Some reported it had but as this touches on it there was confusion in the west between the S-400 and an upgraded version of the S-300 early on as well.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/12012/ S-400completes trials in Nov. 2009 as reported in Dec. 2009.
http://www.defpro.com/news/details/14918/ This article would almost suggest a later date then I have given above based on production and combat launch testing to not have been completed/or started until this past fall. I still like the date above as Post #1 supports this as well as the AUSA (Which in the updated section supports Post #1.) source I used recently in the Jet... thread.
Post: Page 1; #1.
End Part 1
Pat
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Re: The FASTBOAT Patch page.
Linear Mode
