Danish TO & E

[Palle]

While trying to reconstruct the 1. LOPESK as well as I can (to be modified when I get the proper intel from its sources), I ran into a problem. There core of 1. LOPESK (and any, 1st is merely stronger) consists of

-Cmdr in MOWAG Eagle IV
-SiC in GD G270 CDI
-1st Platoon in MOWAG Eagles
-2nd Platoon in GD G270 CDI
-3rd Platoon in MOWAG Eagles
-Additional units (those are the ones I have trouble pinning down what is except that they have a Piranha ambulance).

Each Platoon consists of a commander with two others in a vehicle and three groups each of two vehicles with 6 men/women (Anika Pedersen "Combat Barbie" was rather popular with the Brits in MQ) shared between them. They can function mounted or dismounted and the MGs can be disattached from the vehicles (especially the LSW and LMG of the GD G270 CDI are easy) to be put in emplacements (as in MQ) or carried on foot patrol.

This organisation seems to not be possible to dublicate in the SPMBT engine where a Grp/Sec can only be one unit, so when I try to create a Scout/Recon Platoon it cannot encompass the Sections as they are, for they have four subunits in them and if I work around that by making the Platoons = Company, I cannot create 1. LOPESK as a Cmp cannot be part of a Cmp.

What can be done about that?

And how to model the fact that the guys can work mounted, with two from each vehicle dismounted (securing the vehicles) or all three dismounted and with weapons disattached to be put in emplacements like at MQ?

[Mobhack]

1) Ambulances are entirely irrelevant for game purposes. Ditto any logistical vehicles - unless you want ammo carriers, but the AI does not use these, so your formation would then have to be human-only if it included them. Therefore - best to let the human decide to add an ammo section from misc section, should he desire one.

2) There is no way to model vehicle crew and weapons that are mountable/dis-mountable. The crew and attached weapons stay with the vehicle.
(Making sections 1 more - assuming the vehicle commander dismounts with the section, is allowed. e.g. vehicle crew is 'nominally' 3 and section is 5 - could be modelled with 2 crew APC and 6 man section).

You'll probably have to split the platoon into an A part and a B part. Part A will be a platoon (Officer commanding) and part B a section (Sgt Commanding) the other half-platoon.

Part A: (officers party)
Pl Cdr (if you have as a dismount) - Could be a 2 man FO team (use a unit type not used in the OOB)
Pl Cdr vehicle
3 x dismounts (4)
3 x vehicles

Part B: (Sgts party)
3 x dismounts (4)
3 x vehicles

Spare slots - if you want to break 4 man teams down further (sniper etc?)

If being creative - or your org allows it - a 4 man team may be an EOD specialist (engineer unit type). Useful in Afghanistan.

Company:

CHQ - vehicle (dismount too small to bother with?)
- #2 vehicle - AOP vehicle (a platoon formation so he can buzz about separately. So could be a vehicle (possibly FO vehicle) + foot FOO)
- Part A, #1 platoon
- Part B, #1 Platoon
- Part A, #2 Platoon
- Part B, #2 Platoon
- Part A, #3 platoon
- Part B, #3 Platoon

looks like 8 slots - 2 left for any attached support elements. (Or, leave that to individuals to buy and X-attach if desired, if not a regular pattern)

You could split each platoon into A(officer=pl, 3 veh + dismounts),B (sec of 2 veh + dismounts) , and C (sec of 2 veh + dismounts) parts if you restricted the coy HQ to just one vehicle (a FO vehicle say)? 9 slots for platoon parts, one for the CHQ veh. In this case - any attached support sections to the coy would have to be manually x-attached (no bad thing really - I don't always want, say the ATGM section an OOB designer adds onto his mixed formation).

NB - the advantage of splitting into officer and sgts part-platoons is that the officer/sgt each only have half the large number of small elements of a platoon to rally if things go pear shaped.. ! (and part platoons can operate over a larger frontage). Better Command and control than a single lump, anyway. The 3 separate little sections version is even better for spreading about the map, and rallying.

Andy

[Palle]

The Danish army also no longer use the PNMK M/92 DK since 2005 when they started being phased out.

[Mobhack]

Originally Posted by Palle

The Danish army also no longer use the PNMK M/92 DK since 2005 when they started being phased out.

Looking at this one - why do Denmark have the CV9035 as an SP gun class 39, like 106 RCL Jeeps.

(The SP gun one will not protect passengers like the APC does, any so loaded grunts will be wiped off it by HE or MG fires like any other tank rider). Same goes for the PNMK M/92 methinks!

They should have both 0 carry, or be in own formations with a different unit class, more likely. Do they actually carry any dismounts when being 'SP ATG' in any case? Are these AFV actually used as replacements for 106 RCL Jeeps in some Danish units, or used in some other way?


Andy

[Palle]

And not the Leo 1 at all since 1st Dec 2004 This article (in Danish) relates of the last day on the shooting range with the Leo 1. As far as I can determine their use as recon tanks has ended in 1999 or 2000.

PS. Can I get an allowance to edit for more than 30 mins? Caves on posts as I come across new material.

[Palle]

Originally Posted by Mobhack

Looking at this one - why do Denmark have the CV9035 as an SP gun class 39, like 106 RCL Jeeps.

(The SP gun one will not protect passengers like the APC does, any so loaded grunts will be wiped off it by HE or MG fires like any other tank rider). Same goes for the PNMK M/92 methinks!

They should have both 0 carry, or be in own formations with a different unit class, more likely. Do they actually carry any dismounts when being 'SP ATG' in any case? Are these AFV actually used as replacements for 106 RCL Jeeps in some Danish units, or used in some other way?


Andy

The CV9035 is used (for now only in 1st Cmp- 1st Bat- Royal Life Guard; deployed to Helmand) as a replacement for the M113 as an APC. That is like an IFV. It can only carry 7 men and for that reason the squads of that Cmp has been changed to only 6 men.

Have you seen my other quibbles?

[DRG]

This is all being recorded and will be investigated when we start work on the next patch but before you go any further it might be an idea to look at how other units are put into formations in the game so we don't end up with more references to ambulances or formations that stray outside of the accepted parameters of the game.

Don

[Palle]

Thanks for the confidence...

I already have. I mucked about with OOBs quite a lot. The point was that they might have several Piranhas and usually a command-communications truck as well. And as a historian I want accurate depictions; I sort of have to ;-)

I tried the suggestion outlined above (and still have had no reply from the sources themselves), it sort of works works. But with my background I believe it should not be made official until I know more of the additional units and the difference between 1. LOPESK and the other LOPESKs.

[DRG]

The best way for you to do this is to build the units and formations you want added in a separate copy of the Danish OOB then test that it works and doesn't contain support units we don't bother modeling into the game then post it here and we'll DL it, look it over and if it works for us we'll cut and paste them into the master OOB.

Don

[Palle]

Will try Don, will try ;-)

Though my prime motivation is accuracy. I thought (lazily), to do the research, then let you guys do the work. But I am glad to help as much as I can.

There is one thing I cannot do- or have not tried. Adding picks. Cause the "Archer" SP Gun is not included in any OB yet I cannot steal its pic and use for the expected arrival of that splendid Weapons System. In that respect I am probably too dense to even follow instructions (cause it includes modifying pics before adding right?). So there is a task for you. But then, it should be in the Swedish OOB anyway. I have also had to improvise and use the nearest approximate for the Eagle IV and GD G270 (Eagle I and German Wolf Utility Vehicle respectively). The GD G270's LSW is also mounted facing rearwards; how to model that?